Three of your predecessors were removed in quick succession with the immediate one getting sacked nine months after his appointment. What are you doing differently that has kept you this long in office?
Well, I don’t know. All I can tell you is that I am just doing what I know how best to do as a police officer and administrator. Besides, I try to be very formal and official in almost everything I do here. You know, if you are not an official person, you may probably find the terrain very difficult to tread. In all, I am just doing what I need to do in this place. That could be one of the reasons I am still here.
For some time now, there has been a flurry of arrests of hoodlums but these people have a way of coming back to their criminal activities. What is responsible for this?
Interestingly, I am used to this question; I am always confronted with it. And one thing I always say is that we are not the court. There is something we call division of labour. My mandate is to strike criminals’ dens or hideouts, arrest them, screen them out and charge the ones I believe are culprits to court. And the result is two ways: either they are fined or jailed. But one thing is sure, if they are jailed, their prison term would lapse one day and they will come out. So, that is what you see. It not like we arrest them and court will say ‘okay, go’. It is not like that. It is either they have finished their tenure or paid their fine.
But are you not bothered that these people are returning to the society to continue from where they stopped?
Yes, it bothers me very much but you can’t kill them. But one thing I know is that there is room for change. The Lagos State government has this avenue where they rehabilitate these guys and train them to be useful members of the society. They are trained in tailoring, carpentry, catering and other skills. Interestingly, we realised, of late, that that is throwing up its own challenges, too. People now flood the state from other states to also avail themselves of the opportunity. They know that all they need to do is to sleep under the bridge and get arrested by the task force. They know that once arrested, the state government will send then to vocational homes, where they will be trained and fed. And I see this as negative and a challenge; because it overstretches our facilities. That is why you see the state government reaching out to other states for partnership as a way of curbing this. You know, we are all Nigerians and everybody is free to live wherever they like.
What has been the experience, ensuring environmental compliance in Lagos?
It has been interesting. One thing is that I was born and bred in Lagos – Agege, to be precise. If not for my first degree and NYSC, I wouldn’t have moved out of Lagos. So, I know the terrain like the back of my hand. For instance, we just raided Akala, burnt over 50 million worth of hard drugs, Indian hemp, codeine and cocaine. If not for my upbringing as a Lagos boy, the operation would not have been as smooth as it was. Forty-eight hours before the operation, I was in Akala, disguised. I was there with those guys, those criminal elements. I did everything they were doing with them. The next day, I went there again. That was 24 hours to the operation. I was there to take note of where these consignments were kept and the people that were bringing them in and out. Within a short period, I was able to gather information. That was why when we entered the place around 1.00 a.m., I knew where I was going. And that was why we were able to bring such enormous quantity of drugs out of the place. You know, Lagos is my place. It is well known to me. There is nothing happening there that I don’t have knowledge of.
Would you say that is your staying power?
Apart from that, I must also give kudos to the new Commissioner of Police, Mr [Imohimi] Edgal. He is an extremely operational person. Working with him makes our work easier. It is like a cub being led by a lion. Naturally, you should expect results. The new CP has really encouraged me and the state governor also gave us all the instruments and gadgets needed to accomplish our mandate. The governor is somebody that wants the state to be sanitised. Whatever I ask from him for our operations he provides. So, I have no choice but to work. Those are the things that have kept me going.
On the average, how many arrests do you make per day or per week?
We make nothing less than 160 arrests in all the divisions in Lagos State in a week. You know, we do it with the police area commands. In Akala, the raid was carried out in partnership with Area G. It was I, the Area commander and all the DPOs in that command who that struck the place. Area A did its own last week. We made close to 230 arrests. Sometimes the figure is as high as 250 in a week.
But where do you keep these people? Do you have a facility to accommodate such a high number of inmates?
In fact, that is a big challenge for us. Even when you call the prisons, they will tell you they are filled up; they can’t take anymore. But we still have to do our job. One thing I make sure of is that nobody is detained unjustly here.
But a lot of people see your men as having no respect for people’s fundamental human rights. For instance, they claim that people get stopped on the road, searched and have their mobile phones taken from them and checked…
That can never happen here because I don’t have such officers. I can’t talk about police stations. I can only talk about the task force. The way we are designed, there is no room for that. We always move in a convoy and head to a particular place to carry out a task. So, there is no way we can begin to do stop-and-search. You have to understand that it is definitely not our men. They can’t be involved in such.
There is still the issue of the agberos. One of us had an encounter with one who even boasted that nobody could do anything about his activities. Why do these people appear to be above the law?
The average Nigerian, especially those from the western part of the country, knows how to brag. I have also come across such before. This one was even carrying cutlass daring everybody and shouting from the rooftop that he was unstoppable. But when we apprehended him, he became apologetic. The average agbero, you know, will always brag. That is their training. I have detained their leader in this office before. My own take is that you are not above the law and I am not on your payroll. You can’t pay me; I am a contented police officer. I have a name to protect. The name ‘Egbeyemi’ is very precious to me and I am not in a hurry to soil it.
How do you create a balance between your operation and ensuring that the fundamental rights of the citizen are not trampled upon? For instance, there was an incident around Ijora where two people were killed during an operation carried out by the task force.
I am sure the incident you are talking about is not even during my tenure. It was during that of my predecessor. It is a game we know how to play. It is not about the physical but your mental ability. A lot of people are frustrated. Some don’t even mind dying. You, as a law enforcer, need to be mentally agile so that you are not professionally compromised. When I was in the university, I was a member of the student union. Besides, I have been an advocate of human rights and being an African, I have some moral values that I uphold. So, trampling on anybody’s rights would not even arise in the first place under my watch.
Since I took over this operation, I have never had any outing where anybody died. It is just a game you know how to play. When you have sworn that you are protecting this man and you are now going contrary, automatically nemesis will catch up with you; the law of karma will affect you. I am an advocate when it comes to the issue of human rights. That is why I talk to my people every morning: you are not to brutalise the people you are to protect. Even those ones that resist or attack us, there is still a way you handle them. You can only use firearms when it is obvious that your life is in danger and there is no other way to escape.
Growing up in Lagos must have its challenges for you, too. You must have developed a huge friendship base over the years. How do you deal with friends and acquaintances whenever they or people they know break the law?
Your upbringing matters. When they know the type of person you are, there are some things they can’t tell you. You won’t tell me that you bought a vehicle of about N4 million and your papers of N5,000 expired and you are now calling me. You won’t call me that you were driving one way and the police arrested you when I have told my wife that the day you face one-way and police catch you, please don’t come to my house again. Just go to court and divorce me, because I am going to divorce you. If I could tell my wife something like that, who are you that to now want to call me over such matter? They know me for that. All I want to hear is that ‘Egbeyemi’ or ‘Yinka, I am here. One person is demanding money from me’, or ‘I have given this police officer my papers and he is still demanding money from me’. I will tell you to ‘wait there, I want to meet that policeman’, because all of us are equal. The fact that I am wearing a uniform does not make me superior to you. You have your own line of duty, I have mine. The fact that I am carrying a gun does not make me a god. After all some people’s guns are bigger than my own. Of course, people will call me for this but they know the type of person I am. They will say, ‘Yinka o gbadun, e ma fi iru oro bayi lo’ (don’t tell him that kind of story). But the fact remains that if you have a genuine case, I will fight for you.
Your office is a political appointment. How have you been able to cope with pressures from those that appointed you?
I agree with you that it is a very sensitive seat. It only requires you to be close to God and be extremely prayerful. If God is with you, nobody can be against you. Your background and your pedigree also matter. It is an intoxicating office, no doubt; if you are not careful, you get carried away. I am glad I have been an ADC to a governor. I have worked with an inspector-general of police. Most of the time, I have been in the corridors of power. So, I have seen people that fell because they got carried away or intoxicated by power. Sometimes because they are in charge or very close to people in charge, they step on their superiors’ toes. So, I have learnt lessons. I have been able to abide by the rules. I have been able to employ tact and diplomacy. It has not been easy but God has been guiding me – so far, so good.
You know you are dealing with politicians. For instance, the moment the agency impounds some okada, you will be amazed at the calibre of people that will call you, saying ‘this is my constituency. These people you are arresting are my voters’. And sometimes what I do is to refer them to His Excellency. I tell them it is His Excellency that sent me and if they want me to release the bikes, they can just put a call to His Excellency so that he can give me a directive to release them. You know, I have to be loyal to him, because I am being monitored. But they won’t go to the governor. So, it has been an office that means you are working for the politicians, too, because they have their own electorate and you won’t want to be a hindrance to them. So, there is a way you balance it. But while you are carrying out the exercise, just ask yourself, is this the right thing that you want to do? For instance, it is not everything that requires sending the person to court and jailing them. Sometimes, it requires just a warning.
The fight against street trading seems to have gone down, why?
You know, there was a period the state government was trying to upgrade KAI. During that period of transition and transformation, their activities were rather down, and you know the task force was only trying to augment or support them as part of our mandate, too. So, that period that the agency was undergoing orientation, their work was down. But now they are back.
That is not true. Before the inauguration of the Land Grabbers Act in Lagos, they gave me an assignment to arrest a notorious land grabber in the state. They gave me seven days to make the arrest, but having been born and bred in Lagos I made the arrest within 48 hours. That is what I told you about mental ruggedness. I had to call Abuja, that is, the people that know him. I got his number. I called him and told him. I told him I wanted to buy land at so, so place. He came and I introduced myself to him as Yinka Egbeyemi and told him, ‘You are under arrest and if you want to die, let anybody raise his hand.’ Of course, I got him arrested and took him where he belonged. The issue of infiltration does not come in here at all.
I was DPO of Sango Ota. When I was there, the first thing I told them was, ‘Please, don’t come and give me land’. They thought I was crazy. They were asking, ‘Is this DPO normal?’ I told them I didn’t want land but this police station, let us build it together. What I put in that police station before I left was of United Nations standard. I told them if you know I deserve a land in this place, after I finish my tenure here, you can give me the land for my sendoff. Interestingly, despite all I did there, nobody gave me any. That is where we don’t get it right. That land is like handcuff. Okay, somebody has given you about four plots from a land in dispute and you discover they are fighting. If one of those people that gave me the plots now killed anybody on that land, your hands are tied. You can’t act. That means you have become a commercial police officer and there is no way you would be able to discharge your duties well. As a police officer, you have the right to detain anybody. I am telling you, at Sango Ota, as the DPO, I detained a masquerade for being unruly. I brought the masquerade to the police station and made him write a statement. I was able to ensure sanity in that space. I was able to look them in the eyes and do a lot of things because I never compromised. So, the issue of infiltration will just not happen here. I won’t say I am coming to your house to greet you because I am broke. I won’t do that. I collect salary. Besides, I am not from a poor background. If I am broke, I will call my sister and brother abroad and tell them I am broke, send me money, otherwise I would go and collect bribe and spoil the family’s name. They will all laugh and give me the money. I’m contented because I believe in death. It can come at any time. All the wealth you are accumulating automatically belongs to another person immediately you drop dead.
Can you say the task force has effectively put omo onile in check in the state because they still appear to be all over the place?
Tell me that area in Lagos. Let me know. You know, what you are seeing is because it is something they are used to. You dominate an area, you don’t work. You have about 700 houses in a community and you collect N100,000 per building, you know the fortune they are going to make. Tell me in Lagos State today since Governor Akinwunmi Ambode introduced that land grabber law that the omo oniles still foment trouble. When they hear that the Task Force people are coming, they take to their heels. Even all the baales and the kabiyesis have been warned.
Your men seem to be averse to getting some of the activities of the task force documented while in action, why is this so?
That is not true. There is no big deal in people taking shots of or recording our activities as long as it is going to be balanced. You were there as a journalist, and this one was saying, ‘You are crazy, you are mad’ and you didn’t record or take the shot. The other one slapped me, you didn’t take the shot, but when I responded and the man fainted, you are very much in a hurry to snap.
What are your men doing to decongest the roads, especially those notorious for gridlocks?
Let’s start with Mushin. You know we concentrated on Oshodi. Recently, I was able to see the CP and I told him that, ‘Oga, I am short of manpower’. He asked me how many men I needed. I told him, maybe, 50 and he approved. In fact, I was shocked. I have been encouraged to do more. For instance, go to Iyana Ipaja now, we never had a beat there, we created one. Our dead vehicles, I had to wake them up. Go to Iyana Ipaja now, it is free. We know all these areas.
But they always come back?
Well, I wouldn’t want to divulge everything about our operations. But let me tell you, we are on top of the situation at Iyana Ipaja. If you go there now and you don’t see my men there, please call me. If I want to do my operation, I know how I carry it out. Everybody in this agency went to Mushin. We dominated the place, cleared them, got some arrested and charged to court. I waited for some time, struck again. We did that two more times and they sat up, because they realised we were serious about the whole thing. On their own, they now brought tape and measured where they should or should not be. Let me tell you, Pen Cinema’s own is coming.
So, you normally warn before you strike?
Oh yes. We don’t strike without warning. We have just gone to give somebody seven days notice. He parked caterpillar equipment on the road. We have removal order. We have seal order. These are my initiatives when I came in so that they won’t say the police or the state government is taking the laws into their hands. And that is why since we came on board we have not had a single litigation. That is why I avoid private work. ‘This is my father’s land, come and help me chase these intruders away’, I don’t do it. If you want to do such things, go to court. If you have judgement, they can now summon me and say these people have judgement, chase those people away. I am backed by that judgement, not that ‘oga, that land is our own, our family land, if you help us chase those people away, we give you some plots. A plot is N15 million. And you know our people, if they hear money, we don’t think anymore. They don’t even think about people’s rights. I don’t do that here, but something that is legitimate, I strike like thunder.
and then