Nigerians expect change under Tinubu, but… —Ex-Lagos PDP boss, Captain Selleh

Former chairman, Lagos State chapter of Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), Captain Tunji Selleh (retd.), speaks on various issues of national interest, in this interview with BOLA BADMUS. Excerpts:

WHAT is your reaction on the state of the country under the administration of  President  Bola Tinubu and how would you rate his government?

Nigeria is blessed as a country; it is well blessed with human and material resources. A lot of mineral resources are located at different parts of the country and there is enough manpower with a population of about 250 million. We have enough manpower capable of handling the situation to the optimum level of development at the states, local governments and at individual level for purpose of stabilization.

Nigeria is blessed with brilliant men and women, unfortunately, leadership is our problem. It has been the problem for a long time. But at this critical time in our history, all of us expect a change for improvement in the management of our resources. Unfortunately, this is not the situation.

Why is it that whenever there is an election, candidates will come out to campaign and promise the people to do certain things when voted into office, but once he gets there, things would change? And whenever there is an argument, the same politicians will be telling us that things are not easy being in the saddle, because it is a different thing we see from outside. So what is really the problem?

Campaign is cheap, but implementation is the problem.

 

Why is it so?

Many people are not prepared for the offices they actually contested for and rather than making sacrifices when there are complex situations, every politician thinks of himself first. He thinks of how to be in power.

Is it every politician that is guilty of this? Between 90 and 95 percent are with that kind of mentality. You can just conclude that every politician is in that category. Those people who are ready to make sacrifices, once they see what is going on, they withdraw and feel that politics is a dirty business. And you will see that it is the same set of people that come out today that would come out tomorrow, recycling themselves, meaning that they are just power-seeking, not ready to be patriotic or ready to make the difference or any change. The few people that are ready to do that, they are overwhelmed.

We have three arms of government, the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. [They are] supposed to check the excesses of one another. The National Assembly is supposed to make laws; it defines what and what the Executive is doing and if there is any form of infraction, the Judiciary is there to correct and ensure that proper thing is done. There should be consequences for every action and inaction, but, unfortunately, there are no consequences. The Executive has hijacked both the Legislature and the Judiciary; they have compromised them.

We can do better by eliminating corruption, or reduce corruption to the barest minimum. Corruption is the bane of our problem. Greed and corruption are the major factors setting Nigeria back, once we are able to eliminate these two cankerworms, Nigeria would be better and attain her dream.

 

Are you saying that Nigeria is getting worse under the present administration of President Tinubu?

Yes. Definitely… because one would have expected that after the fuel subsidy was removed, a lot of measures would have been put in place to ensure that the policy guidelines are followed strictly and would not affect the lives of the people negatively.

 

But some people have been claiming that the fuel subsidy removal is a very good policy; do you also agree to that?

I do. This fuel subsidy thing would have been well taken care of way back in 2012 and 2013, but the set of people in government today are the ones that fought against fuel subsidy removal. They gathered at Ojota in Lagos and they stayed there for more than two weeks, dancing, singing and condemning fuel subsidy removal. It would then have been the best to be done in the country if they had allowed the policy to remain and plans would have been made to alleviate whatever consequences that may have arisen. That is more than 10 years ago. We would have survived that regime. Things would have adjusted; policy change would have taken place and people would have adjusted, because all it means is that you remove fuel subsidy, you would ensure that refineries are working. You remove fuel subsidy, you would ensure that salaries are adjusted. You remove fuel subsidy, you will pump the money into agriculture; you will diversify the economy and everybody is up and doing because Nigerians are ready to work.

 

To you, that’s the way you think the fuel subsidy removal issue could be addressed, but is it not the same way the government is addressing it now?

He has not done any part of it.

 

But the government has also been claiming that the economy is already improving based on the policies put in place?

Anybody who wanted to achieve success in a situation like this must be prudent. That government must be prudent, must not be involved in buying cars for legislators at exorbitant prices. Those are the things we hear. If you dig deep into the real situation, the padding of the budget, you would know that we are far from what they are saying. A lot of padding of budget is affecting this economy, wasteful spending, refurbishing houses with billions of Naira, refurbishing guest houses with billions of Naira, buying new presidential jet, while those that are on ground are still operational and enough to service the office of the president and vice-president. So if a country is not prudent or the managers of the country are not prudent, that country cannot make a headway.

We can make sacrifices, but the leadership should be patriotic and up and doing, ready to serve the people and also ready to deliver dividends of democracy. You removed fuel subsidy, there should be a number of buses put into the system from state to state with Federal Government support to achieve easy transportation. Water transportation can be further developed in places where there are rivers and waterways, like Lagos State, Rivers State, Akwa Ibom State and all the coastal states.

And also rail line is a major factor in national development. Once you have a functional rail system, that would be okay. But all we are doing is just like palliative. Nigeria is just doing palliative all the time; they don’t focus on the main issue. The coastal road is a very good project, but what is the foundation of this coastal road? What is the reason behind it, is it genuine? Is the reason behind that coastal road genuine? Is it not for personal aggrandizement or personal gain? Those are the questions I want to throw. And all the projects we are doing in this country, we should ask ourselves, at what cost for everyone of them? This is because if a project is supposed to be N100bn and you put it out for N200bn, you have shortchanged the country with N100bn deficit and N100bn can do so many other things.

 

The 2025 Budget is over N54trn. Looking at this huge figure, do you think it would achieve any meaningful thing for the country?

We are doing deficit budgeting from session to session, from year to year and so I don’t know how far they can go with it. And this budget you are talking about, I have already talked about it, budget padding. There is a lot of padding in that budget that is not known to all of us. What is the Consistency Project about? How much is allocated to the Office of the Senate President? How much is allocated to each of the senators and House of Representatives members? And can you find the equivalent of this amount in their various constituencies or senatorial districts? They are talking of palliatives, giving money to some people, I have not identified one person that would tell me he has benefited… Maybe in some places in the North, they have a register. I have not seen anyone that has said that he has benefited from government palliatives, sending money to the poorest of the poor. They are using it to siphon funds and the money they are siphoning, I don’t know what they want to do with it. Most of this goes for saving for election so that hungry people would come on the day of election and they would start giving them this money to vote for a particular person.

 

The problem confronting Nigeria, is it just about leadership alone, but what about followership?

Leadership dictates what followership would do. There is nowhere I work that I don’t carry the people along and I was transparent. I was in the Navy. But in this country, it is a known fact that some officers, they have the money saved in their offices, but you don’t need it. If you have a safe, it’s just for petty cash, but people would keep huge money in the safe, spend it. But what you have to do is that you have done your budget, as soon as you need money, you go and withdraw that money to execute the project. Not that you just keep money there and you spend it anyhow… Meaning that the money is not budgeted for. People are just pretending; that’s just exactly what we are doing.  We have a budget; we don’t follow it and we just spend the money.

That is what people in high offices do in this country. People in high offices, instead of ensuring that money for projects is kept in the bank, they withdraw some and keep it in the safe. It’s like the way they handle security votes without anybody accounting for it. You just spend it anyhow and this money runs into billions of Naira that can be used to develop the various facets of government. But, unfortunately, that is not what we have on ground.

 

Now, briefly, what is your take on the issue in the Senate between the Senate president and Senator Natasha Akpoti-Uduaghan?

 It is a ridiculous and embarrassing thing to hear or to talk about, very unethical. The Senate is supposed to be a hallowed chamber where the rules of engagement are clearly stated and strictly followed. Unfortunately, familiarity brings contempt. I think that is the situation in the Senate. I don’t want to go into ‘you are supposed to sit here, you are supposed to be on that seat,’ all those things can be ironed out. But when it goes to the ridiculous extent of targeting a particular individual or starts expressing things that would ridicule the Office of the Senate President, that is not ethical enough. Well, some people have suggested conducting investigation. That is what they should do, but can we learn a lesson from that?

 

But the Senate president had ruled that [investigation] out. What do you have to say to that?

Well, it is better we manage it and keep it the way it is because it is a dirty affair. I don’t like commenting on things that are frivolous and not expected of a particular body or system that is highly rated. The Senate is not conducting itself properly and what they do is take us for granted. They take Nigeria for granted. They don’t make laws that would help us develop; they make laws that fill their own pockets.

The Speaker of the Lagos State House of Assembly, Rt. Hon. Mudashiru Ajayi Obasa, was reinstated after about 39 days after he was sacked by the majority of the members. Earlier before his reinstatement, Obasa stormed the assembly with his security operatives, whereas the security operatives of then incumbent, Rt. Hon. Mojisola Meranda, were withdrawn by the powers that be. What is your reaction to all this?

Well, all of them are guilty because everybody in that State Assembly was sponsored… they were not really elected. They were sponsored… How is it that, in the last 26 years now since we started the present democratic dispensation, a particular party has been winning elections all the time, in a particular state? We only had elections in 2015 when I was the state chairman of PDP, when we won eight seats out of 40 seats in the Lagos State House of Assembly and then six seats out of the 24 House of Representatives seats allocated to the state. Apart from that year, we have not heard of any other party winning elections into the state House of Assembly.

By stroke of luck, maybe a Labour Party candidate won in Amuwo-Odufin. He was the only one out of 40 in the state assembly; how do you expect checks and balances? The speaker was accused of corruption and high-handedness, but somebody put all of them there. Probably, they shortchanged each other; probably, the speaker shortchanged them and they were forced to react and after reacting, they found out that they could not go far because someone put all of them in that office and is dictating to them what they should do.

So when you now have the Governor’s Advisory Council (GAC), they are just there to make comment, but not to effect change and to advise appropriately. The House of Assembly should be self-adjusting. If they have any problem, they should be able resolve it on their own without any external forces. But external forces have been introduced from the Presidency to the Governor’s Advisory Council, and to individuals who should not even have a say in the affairs of Lagos. Bringing people from Osun State, that is Baba Bisi Akande, bringing Chief Olusegun Osoba from Ogun State to come and help solve the problem of Lagos State House of Assembly… It is unfortunate.

So, it is a dirty deal for someone to have been removed… He said he went to court and, suddenly, he turned back and forced his back to the state assembly and at the end of the day, the 36 lawmakers who removed him succumbed and handed over the office back to the person they alleged to have involved himself in corruption and high-handedness.  Something is wrong with it.

 

What do you think should be done?

Well, what can one do? They have already sorted themselves out. Posterity would judge at the end of the day whether we are really practising democracy or we are faking it.

 

But some have said that President Bola Tinubu is a democrat to the core who really fought for democracy in this country. But with what is happening or what has happened in Lagos, any real connection to what they are saying?

I don’t want to talk about Mr. President when it concerns issue of democracy.

 

Why?

I don’t think he believes in democracy. Under his watch, I don’t think we are having democracy. The Judiciary doesn’t have a free-hand, not even the Legislature. How do we reconcile all this?

 

You were once the chairman of PDP in Lagos State. What is happening in the state chapter of the party now?

 I have already talked about that briefly. It is unfortunate. I have said it before that Mr. President, I don’t think he believes in democracy; he only talks about it. Democracy involves people; it involves doing the right thing at the right time and at the right places, and the right people who participate in elections are made to win elections.

But the state Independent Electoral Committee, when they are conducting local government elections, their officers are highly compromised. No other party can win local government elections. Have you heard of anybody from the opposition who won election before winning again where he won in the past? They would just write a different result and say go to court. The LASIEC would ask you to go to court.

[Musulumi] Obanikoro’s son, Obanikoro Junior, once won election in Eti-Osa Local Government; they wrote a different result. We contested it; we gave evidence. At the end of the day, LASIEC chairman said: “Go to court.” The young man lost election at the end of the day only to return to that party, their party, and won as the chairman of that particular local government.

 

All these things that are happening to PDP, do you blame them on external forces and what do you have to say about leaders of the party that appear to be selling out to the ruling APC?

It is more a complicated issue. Somebody introduced corruption into the electoral system, so it will continue to be in that circle. Somebody deliberately introduced corruption, bought INEC staff, bought LASIEC staff, bought every other person with money, so it becomes difficult for the opposition party to make a difference.

Look at what is happening at our national level. We have the Acting Chairman who is being manipulated by external forces from within, that is working for the opposition. You can’t remove the hand of Nyesome Wike from what is happening at the National and who is Wike working for? Wike is supposed to be in PDP, where is he serving? Which government is he serving in? So once they have money, they have influence and they have power and they use it to oppress. So there is nobody they cannot compromise except a few.you can identify. They know that everybody has a price.

Imagine me being in the National Assembly and they are sharing cars. They bought cars that I don’t believe we should be sharing and that we should reject the cars worth N250 million each and out of how many Senators do we have? We have 109 Senators and 360 members of House of Representatives, and they are sharing. Will I now single myself out and say I will not collect? It doesn’t mean anything to them. But within my own conscience, I believe it is wrong, morally bankrupt to collect such because the country is getting a deficit budget.  What moral justification will I have collecting a car worth N250 million and collecting constituency projects that I will not execute? Similarly, it is happening at the state level.

So the question of corruption has made it possible for the wrong people to lord it over genuine and legitimate people who believe in democracy. We are not practicing democracy in the country and in Lagos in particular. Everything is being hijacked.

 

Ahead of 2027, what is really happening? Is there any hope for the opposition party to return to power?

 I don’t want to write the party off for now, but a lot of damage has been done to the party from internal and external forces, a lot of damage. So we are looking for damage control now. A meeting is supposed to be held on this issue, where we expect all leaders to come together. I think that would help to pacify the situation. But I am not hopeful that the party would just bounce back like that. If APC government in Lagos can reconcile a bad situation as that of the removal of the speaker, Mudashiru Obasa, definitely, it would be difficult for anybody or any other party to make inroad until there is a level playing field, but there is no level playing field in the politics of Lagos. Lagos has been hijacked and money is playing a major role. Power is there.

 

Just a few days ago, your party’s governorship candidate in the 2023 poll, Dr. AbdulAzeez Adediran aka JANDOR resigned from the party, citing indiscipline, even as he alleged that some leaders worked against his victory in the last poll, and the PDP National Headquarters did nothing about his petition.

You even introduced him to me as Jandor, as governorship candidate.

 

But that is the popular name people call him.

No, a serious person will not use the name JANDOR and every one would embrace him. Is he a filmmaker, or about a film show? Government is a serious business. Once you want to be a governor, it is a serious business. It is a tasking business, that you have to be serious about. You have to be focused; you have to be real, not fake.

A lot of things happened in the last elections. We can’t wish away the influence, or incursion of Peter Obi into the presidential race. Peter Obi became a movement in itself. Peter Obi’s incursion into the presidential race was a movement and a lot of youths bought into it because they were fed up with APC or PDP government. So, I don’t expect Jandor to have made any serious impact. He couldn’t have the strength of electioneering when Obi’s people, the Obedient voters, people who related with Obi came out enmass. Some of them didn’t even look at party again; they just went for Obi. Obi was in Labour.

You can recall that PDP lost at the centre in the first election, the Presidential Election. Peter Obi made an inroad in Lagos, made an inroad in Abuja; he even defeated Tinubu in Lagos. You can imagine it!

 

So what you are saying is that nobody worked against his victory as he claimed.

No, he got what he deserved because he didn’t even work with the party. He believed in the people at the National Headquarters of the party. He believed in his friends rather than working with the team on ground. He didn’t work with the people; he thought he could do it alone and people left him to solve his problems alone. It wasn’t deliberate, but his attitude, his action dictated that pattern of relationship. He was the cause of the problems.

 

What you are saying is that the party does not have any regret over his decision to dump it?

What has he really contributed? I can’t see one. Look at people who even surrounded him, like my own deputy when I was chairman of the party, he was very close to him. Niyi Adams was close to him, and some other individuals said they were not going anywhere with him. They still went out together on Sunday, but by Monday when he was making the declaration, they said no, this one cannot make any headway the way he was going. If he was so influential and effective, he could have carried them along. So he has nothing; he has not contributed anything, and he has not lost anything. He is on his own. I even see him in quote as an ‘agent of disruption, agent of confusion, agent of stabilization.’

READ ALSO: Tinubu urges political leaders to prioritise poor Nigerians