In this interview by KUNLE ODEREMI, member of the Board of Trustees (BoT) of the Arewa Consultative Forum (ACF) and former general secretary, , says Nigeria’s problem has nothing to do with form of government but the collapse of national ideals, moral values. He also says the country does not need another conference on how to move forward. Excerpts:
THE debate over democratic practice in Nigeria has again come to the fore, with former President Olusegun Obasanjo declaring that the model currently practiced in Nigeria has failed the country and indeed Africa. As a stakeholder in the Nigerian Project, what would you say about his position?
While I share the concerns expressed by former President Olusegun Obasanjo about the lackluster practice of democracy by African countries, to say democracy has collapsed in African countries among which is Nigeria is a hyperbole. For example, consider America which is over 245 years in practice of democracy, yet President Donald Trump has resorted to ruling by Executive Orders in blithe disregard for the roles of the Congress in the practice of democracy. As of today, there are over 100 court cases challenging some of the Executive orders, and some have succeeded in their efforts. So, our problems have nothing to do with courts, more so that multiparty democracy is rule of law. Nigeria has practiced uninterrupted democracy for about 25 years now. That the practices have not been that very smooth all through and still need improvement is not to suggest our democracy has collapsed. It is trying and should be applauded.
There is no doubt that there are few challenges impeding the deepening of democracy in Nigeria, which warranted OBJ’s assertion. He cited the judicial system and the electoral process.
Former President Obasanjo had demonised the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC) way back before elections of 2023. He also condemned the judiciary. He is not totally wrong in his critiques of INEC and the judiciary. But he is totally wrong in his approaches which can make people lose faith in the democratic institutions. As a former head of state and president, his place in the order of things is to help build strong democratic institutions, and not to make Nigerians lose faith in them. He can do so by way of advice and not condemnation.
The former Nigerian leader had the opportunity to right the perceived wrongs inhibiting democracy when he was the head of state from 1976 to 1979. To what extent would you say Obasanjo made efforts in the regard?
The problems of Nigeria are not limited to the practice of democracy, but attributable to our attitudes and the way we do things. There have been efforts to confront some of the national malaise. For examples, there were Low Profile and Operation Feed The Nation by General Obasanjo as Head of state. President Shehu Shagari came up with Austerity Measures and Green Revolution. As head of state, General Muhammadu Buhari introduced War Against Indiscipline (WAI). Military President Ibrahim Babangida introduced International Monetary Fund (IMF’) inspired Structural Adjustment Programme. President Obasanjo’s second coming was in democracy. He tried and introduced the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) and Independent Corrupt Practices and other Related Commission (ICPC) to fight corruption. This was because President Obasanjo knew that democracy cannot do well in atmosphere of corruption, poverty and ignorance. That is why one may not be wrong to say President Obasanjo contradicted himself in the manner he wanted Third Term, how he inspired some of the impeachments, and the military operations in Udi and Zaki Biam. President Obasanjo’s removal of Chief Audu Ogbe as the national chairman of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) and the desire for Third term were not democratic.
President Buhari came to fight insecurity and corruption through punitive and preventive fronts. Yet, many of the challenges confronting the nation are still very much around. Reasons: There is need for change of attitudes and the way we do things by both leaders and also the led.
Obasanjo handed over to the late President Shehu Shagari in 1979 after he facilitated the writing of a ‘federal constitution. Does it mean the inadequacies he now complains about concerning democracy did not exist then?
The heads of state and presidents had their own ways of confronting the national malaise. Obasanjo tried in his own way. President Goodluck Jonathan also made his own effort, while President Buhari went as far as his efforts could take him, but because the challenges are overwhelming, the problems did not reduce to the levels most Nigerians expected. I have said it many times that the 1999 Constitution is a clone of that of 1979, which was sired democratically and factioned after how that of America was produced. The 49 wise men under the chairman of the late Chief Rotimi Williams drafted the constitution, which was debated by an elected Constituent Assembly under the watch of the late Justice Udo Udoma, and the outcome was promulgated into the 1979 Constitution. You would recall the 1979 Constitution was suspended by General Buhari in 1983. When General Abubakar Abdulsalami wanted to hand over to a democratically elected government, he put up the Justice Nikki Tobi’s committee to harmonise the constitution of 1979 and that of 1995 into 1999 Constitution for effect. The Justice Nikki Tobi’s committee consulted around the country and came up with the verdict that Nigerians preferred the 1979 Constitution. So, the 1979 was adopted as 1999 Constitution with additions of those states and local governments created after 1979. That explains why the 1999 Constitution is depicted as a clone of the 1979 Constitution. It is to be noted that most of those who professed to be jaunty face of democracy contested elections under the 1979 Constitution. They included Chief Awolowo, Dr Nnamdi azikiwe, Alhaji Shehu Shagari, Mallam Aminu Kano, Alhaji Waziri Ibrahim, Chief Bola Ige, Alhaji Lateef Jakonde, Chief Michael Ajasin, Chief Sam Mbakwe and Chief Odumegwu Ojukwu. I always make this point in order to dispel any misconceptions about the 1999 Constitution which is selfsame with that of 1979 sired democratically.
On May 29, 1999, Obasanjo had the privilege of being a civilian president after two decades of leaving office as a military head of state. Does it mean his perceived major shortcomings in democracy did not subsist when he ruled for eight years as a civilian president with awesome powers courtesy of the 1999 Constitution, also produced by the military? He talked about the need to infuse the peculiarities of our environment into governance to produce a democratic model that best suits Nigeria and African countries.
I have pointed out several times that our problem is in all facets of our national life which can be corrected by ceaseless hard work by both leaders and the led. For examples, democracy cannot thrive in decadence. Corrupt democracy is called kleptocracy, a democracy by money bags for money bags is called plutocracy. Democracy thrives only in decent and civil society. You may note this fact that democracy may differ in forms, but when it comes to its three elements of justice, liberty and common decency, democracy is the same and universal. Those who seek homegrown democracy can as well reinvent the wheel or redefine the truth.
Did he, in any way, try to remove those perceived obstacles militating against the process of entrenching democracy in Nigeria, and how? Besides, some people say the issue of ethno-religious diversity constitutes a challenge to civil rule in Nigeria.
Since corruption, poverty and ignorance affect the practice of democracy substantially, President Obasanjo tried to fight corruption by establishing EFCC and ICPC for punitive measures against corruption. Unfortunately, he contradicted himself with some of his actions like the ones in Zaki-Biam, Udi, removal of governors and Chief Audu Ogbe as chairman of PDP and his bid for Third Term.
I have said that corruption, poverty and ignorance play effective roles in the practices of democracy. The problems are not in our diversity but in our attitudes and the way we do things. Consider Ethiopia, which has never been colonised and practices ethnic-based democracy, still confronts problems of nation building. Lebanon tries to do religious balancing by having President from Christianity, prime minister from Sunni and speaker from Shia, yet challenges of nation building have not ebbed. Somali is more or less a one faith and one ethnic group country, yet it is a failed state that cannot practice democracy. The reasons for such failure are because corruption, poverty and ignorance, which affect practice of democracy, are still endemic. So as long as corruption, poverty and ignorance are endemic in Nigeria, democracy would still have challenges. This is because the three factors have effects on the practices of democracy.
President Obasanjo is consistently inconsistent, especially when regard is paid to how he contradicted himself with impeachment of some governors, the Zaki-Biam and Udi episodes, as well as his removal of Chief Audu Ogbe as chairman of his party and his effort to go for third term. As a result, he does not stand on a high moral ground to espouse what he believes is the best for democracy. More so that he does not see good in all heads of state and presidents besides self as if he is all-knowing, all-wise and holds all the truth.
In the light of what obtains in developed countries, what do you believe is actually wrong with our form of democracy, and how should those issues be addressed? Do we need a national conference again and why?
I have said many times that our problems have less to do with form of government than with the collapse of our national ideals and moral values, as well as sense of what is right and what is evil. One of the ways out is to embark on cultural renaissance needed for rewiring the politics, reengineering our sense of justice, making mercy smarter and hope strategic. I do not see the need for another conference on how to move Nigeria forward unless of course, the conference will be on why conferences fail in Nigeria.
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