IT’S been two years since your party, the APC, took over power at the centre, how would you describe its health so far?
The party is in very good health, people who are making insinuations or making wrong inferences have their motives for such things. As far as I am concerned, APC can be likened to a situation where there is a mother that has many children, if all the children enter into their mother’s closet, and they all come out smiling, saying the same thing, it is a very clear indication that they have been deceiving themselves. But when it now comes to a political party as big as APC, I don’t think anybody should expect everybody to talk along the same line in support of the same thing every time. That is what largely killed PDP; they were busy deceiving one another, anointing themselves as the party destined to rule Nigeria forever. They were not speaking the truth to one another and when they had problems, they could not diagnose them or look for solutions.
So, if APC leaders talk differently now, it doesn’t mean there is infighting among them, it’s only an exhibition of democracy that we talk about in APC. You have individual mind and if you are not the spokesperson of the party, you have the latitude to speak your mind to enrich every discussion. But if anybody wants to know the mind of the party, the National Publicity Secretary is there to do that, the National Chairman is also there to do that, the National Secretary is also there to do that. When these people speak, it is APC that is speaking, every other person who is a member of the party has his freewill to look at issues, vital issues and proffer solutions, because at the end of the day, the national leadership of the party, when they meet, that is the NEC of the party, would collate all those views to take an informed position about what the party should articulate.
But many people will not agree with you on this point.
But that is the exercise of democracy. I am articulating my view that I am not disappointed or surprised that some people who are not occupying the position of National Chairman, National Secretary, National Publicity Secretary speak their minds, which may be different from what the spokespersons of the party have said.
The reason many people will not agree with you that all is well with the party is because the former Deputy Publicity Secretary of the party, Timi frank, had, on more than two occasions, called for the resignation of the party’s national chairman, Chief John Odigie-Oyegun. Also during the Ondo governorship primaries, Senator Bola Tinubu called for the resignation of Oyegun for the role he allegedly played in the exercise. Since then, some accusations had been flying about and we also have chapters of the party boiling too.
Well, the former Deputy National Publicity Secretary of the party, Timi Frank, who you referred to, was a misguided member of the party and an informed party member who happened to have held the position of the Deputy National Publicity Secretary in error. I am saying this with a sense of responsibility and not with any intention to rubbish his personality. He ought not to have been put in that position, it was an error. It was an error of party formation. When the party was coalescing into APC, an error occurred and once the leadership realised it was an error, they had to be on their guard. So, all he was saying was just blabbing all over the place without the authority of the party and that was why he was quietly rested to stop embarrassing the party. Honestly, that was precisely why it was impossible to make him act as the Acting National Publicity Secretary of the party after Alhaji Lai Mohammed vacated that position. Ordinarily, if he was up to the task and the leadership of the party had trust in him, he would have been asked to act. So let’s not talk about him. He is better forgotten totally, because talking about him gives him the chance to say more.
It is true that Senator Bola Ahmed Tinubu called for the resignation of the chairman of the party, but since that time, you have seen the National Chairman and Asiwaju together. So it was not all together misplaced if the call came from an eminent, respected leader like Asiwaju. But by the time adequate information was made available to the leadership of the party, which was not done on the television or in the media, everything came to normal. So I think people should take the call of Asiwaju and the subsequent peace that pervaded the party as an indication that the misunderstanding had been properly rested.
What about the state chapters of the party, including Kaduna and Lagos where you have Dr Muiz Banire and Senator Shehu Sani on the opposite side of the party leadership in their respective states?
Look, the Kaduna issue is a personality issue. Shehu Sani has personal differences with the current governor of Kaduna State, Malam Nasir el-Rufai. It is a personal thing between them which has somehow been escalated into crisis, which really does not exist in Kaduna State. No, I don’t believe there is a crisis in Kaduna State. If there are misunderstandings between two leaders in the state, it does not mean that there is crisis, because definitely, each of the leaders would have his or her supporters and followers, so that does not mean there is crisis.
In Kano State, what we are having there is also not a crisis in the sense that there are differences between the current governor, Ibrahim Ganduje and the immediate past governor, Rabiu Kwankwanso. These are issues about personal differences, not about crisis within the party and people should stop fabricating, circulating differences between two leaders to mean that the party has become weak and factionalised.
You mentioned Lagos. The Banire issue that you referred to in Lagos State cannot and should never be referred to as crisis in the Lagos APC. You are talking about one man in two local government areas.
But he has his supporters
Yes, you are talking about Banire in Mushin and Odi-Olowo Local government areas within a pool of 57 local governments, so it is not a crisis in Lagos State. It is not a misunderstanding; it is not a disagreement among the leadership of the party in Mushin and Odi-Olowo. It is Banire and his supporters on one side and other leaders and their supporters on another side. But it is a disagreement that could never metamorphose into factional crisis, because that disagreement was on before we had the last council election and the fact that the party stood together and voted in our candidates in the two council areas during the council elections is enough indication to anybody who is a serious analyst of political developments to know and conclude that the storm is not even the storm in a tea cup, it is a storm in a tea spoon, which is so small. When you look at a tea inside a spoon and tea inside a tea cup, you can see the difference.
What is Banire’s current status in the party in Lagos State now, is he still a member or has he been suspended or expelled and what role did the party play to intervene in the case?
Dr Banire is still a member of APC, because it is only the National Convention of the party that can expel any member, that’s one. Number two, I am aware that there was a petition brought against him from Mushin and Odi-Olowo local governments and it was received by me on behalf of the state chairman here at the APC secretariat. The petition was forwarded to the National Secretariat of the party for necessary action, because it was addressed to the state chairman, it was not addressed to the state governor. It was only routed to the National Chairman through the state chairman and the state chairman has done what the constitution of the party requires him to do at that particular time by forwarding the petition to the National Chairman. We have not heard anything after that. So, whatever you must have heard or read about his expulsion or suspension is mere expression of the wishes of the people who are in opposition to him in his local government.
In case there is no response on the petition from the National Secretariat of APC, what is likely to happen?
There must be a response; the National Secretariat is going to take action. Whatever they ask us to do, we would do it. Members in Dr Banire’s local government have raised a motion to expel him, but constitutionally, it is of no effect, so he remains a bona fide member of the party until otherwise done properly in accordance with the party’s constitution.
There is cry about marginalisation and sidelining of key stakeholders in the party. For instance, it is said that Asiwaju also suffers from this by having his list of nominees rejected for appointment by President Muhammadu Buhari, while former Vice-President Atiku Abubakar voiced out his concern a few weeks ago, what is the party doing to address this problem?
I am not aware that Asiwaju ever publicly accused President Buhari of sidelining him. If your question is based on what people are saying, there is nothing to talk about. There is nothing to talk about what the people say, because none of these people has come out to say that he witnessed where Tinubu gave a list to President Buhari, which was rejected and none of them has ever come out to say that Asiwaju complained to him. So, I will not comment about that, because I don’t believe it. It is the imagination of some people.
Well, in respect to what Alhaji Abubakar Atiku was reported to have said, I am being careful with my choice of words by using ‘reported to have said,’ because he has not come out to deny the statement. So, if he said it, he would have his reasons for saying it, because I am not aware that President Muhammadu Buhari calls people together for consultation to say I want to carry you along in this or that, so I don’t know in which context he made that statement.
You have said that there is no crisis in the APC, how come that up till now the party has not been able to hold any NEC meeting, NWC meeting and even the National Convention?
I think again, people who are saying that are not members of APC or they are not informed members of APC, because the constitution of the party empowers the National Working Committee to run the party. The NEC does not have to hold meeting every month; it is allowed to do it maybe maximum of two times in a year.
On the National Convention, there are two types of National Convention; one is elective and the other is non-elective. We are going to have an elective convention next year by the grace of God, at the expiration of tenure of the current executive of the party at all the levels from the ward to local government, to state and national.
Some people are saying that maybe these meetings are not holding because the national chairman is nursing fears that if such meetings should be called, he would be removed.
Don’t forget that the constitution also has a provision for a meeting to be called if there is need to have the meeting and the chairman at any level, national, state, local government or ward is trying to stop it. There is a provision for such relevant meeting to be held in according with the provision of the constitution of the party. So, if people think or assume that the National Chairman is trying to prevent the NEC meeting or National Working Committee meeting from holding, such meeting could still be called once requirements are met. I am aware that National Working Committee members meet as and when necessary, but such meetings are not always made matters of public knowledge.
and then