Mallam Yusuf Alli (SAN) is the chairman of Pro-Chancellors in Nigeria and Chairman, Governing Board, University of Osun (UNIOSUN). In this interview with ADEOLU ADEYEMO, he spoke on how he felt when the Osun State government awarded him as one of the outstanding Nigerians at the celebration of its 30th anniversary of the state’s existence.
WHAT do you think is often responsible for conflicting decisions of courts of law in the country?
This is part of the problem I identified earlier, that is, underdevelopment in the system. But, I must say that many of our colleagues are at the centre of this problem. If you don’t file a case, nobody will hear anything. I think the Nigeria Bar Association (NBA) is having very serious views about this too. We need to strengthen our disciplinary mechanism for lawyers. I served on this committee for years and I can see that there is problem. The lawyers have their own big chunk of the problem. They must learn to say no, no matter the amount involved in terms of the fees or remuneration. There are things that are antithetical to the profession. Anything that amounts to an abuse of the judicial process and ethics is not worthy of any lawyer. Our ethical standards must be higher. When a judge is taking a matter he may not know that a similar case exists somewhere else. That is part of the things that we have to do on the part of automation and having IT compliant court so that if any judge gives a ruling on a matter, it is available online for everybody to see or look at. Look at what is happening to Julianne, the personal lawyer to Donald Trump. The New York Bar has suspended him because they said he was propagating electoral fraud like Trump was doing when he was saying the election was rigged. We must get to that point in our profession here, where a lawyer who does something like that is immediately sanctioned before other processes are followed. If we want to sanitise the system we can’t be blaming the judges alone where we have lawyers and the Nigerians. This ‘do or die’ contest for political positions is very bad. The political class is too desperate for the spoils of office.
Do you think anti-open grazing law is implementable even without the southern governors providing ranching?
We have been living together for a long, both the herders and the farmers, I think what we should look out for is why suddenly are the problem of cattle herding has taken this dangerous dimension that now leads to banditry and kidnapping. The average herder that you see on the road around here doesn’t understand most of this quarrel. What kind of people are now herding and carrying AK-47? We are now discussing ranching. If you go to places like the United States (US) and England, what they call ranches is exceedingly capital intensive which means you must able to grow enough grass on a land mass that will sustain them come rain or shine. On grazing route, for the average Bororo person who believes the whole of the forest is their passable places and with Nigeria having no border, you don’t know herders who are from Nigeria, Chad and Niger even as far as Senegal who comes through the course of River Niger or Benue. It is a whole complex issue, we should now start to commission people who are knowledgeable. We should not look at now but the future. Today we are battling with herders; tomorrow we will start battling with fishermen. Part of what has contributed to banditry is the drying up of Lake Chad. It has lost 90 percent of its water. Let look at the creation of proper borders and one of the easiest ways is the National Identity Card. At least, we should know those who are Nigerians and non-Nigerians.
Does it mean the anti-open grazing law will not work?
I have not said so. Let us wait. How do we police these guys? If for example these guys are herding cows at the extreme local government of Osun, Ife South and Oke-Ila, how do you know they are inside the forest except farmers see them? I think we should be a bit scientific with the way we treat the matter. I don’t like us turning all issues to political issues. We tend to turn serious national issue to North and South dichotomy, tribal matters.
How do you think electronic transmission of results can reduce violence or ensure election credibility?
Let me say that I will support anything that will assist us to make votes count. I said it after the election in 1999, 2003 that the more credible elections become, the fewer litigations we will be having. Election petition constitutes less than 20% of what I do as a lawyer. There are other areas of law that credible elections will throw up. For me, it is not too late for the National Assembly to revisit the issue of electronic transmission since the electoral body has said it is capable. Why do you cry more than the bereaved? Why are you more Catholic than the Pope? INEC said it has the capacity, they said no. The National Assembly should do that which will assist us. The problem with our politicians is that this “do or die” is too much. I have said several times that our electoral system and politics is too monetized. We won’t get it right until we get out of the monetization. You see the levels of disagreements and litigations on pre-election matters on who becomes the candidate. It is a serious matter and it is because people see political office as an avenue to get out of poverty not for service. I have told people if you are given an assignment for two to four years and you do it well and diligently, you wouldn’t want a renewal. You would rather want to go home.
How do you feel about the award and honour by the state government?
My heart is full of gratitude to Almighty Allah for his unending favour. It may interest you that when Kwara state was celebrating its 50th-anniversary last year, I was one of the 50 people that were selected and I got an award.
I am not sure that I have done anything exceptional. Some people have done so much but it takes the grace of God to be recognised. I cannot say that I have done so much; there are people that have done so much for humanity but they died unsung. My take-off point is that without the creator, man will labour in vain. I feel happy because I am being celebrated when I am alive especially when I am in my semi-prime. I am privileged; some people are not even recognised in their family but on a larger scale they are. It is worthy of thanksgiving.
The process of selecting Vice-Chancellors of universities is usually problematic. As Chairman of Pro-Chancellors in Nigeria and Chairman, Governing Board, UNIOSUN, what exactly do you see to be the problem and how do you think we can get out of such?
Let me say that, like anything in Nigeria, we believe that any available leadership position is a titular one where people think it is just to take maximum benefit. People don’t even ask themselves if they have the qualities for whatever position they are aspiring to and it will also interest you that Nigeria is one of the few countries where people struggle to become Vice-Chancellor. In serious countries of the world, you don’t even know when the Vice-Chancellor is appointed. Very serious scholars run away from such positions because they just want to focus on research, teachings, innovations and others. Some people are challenging the advertisement of the council saying that we excluded people who do not have a PhD. But it does not weigh, that is the law of the University. It says, “those who can apply for the position of Vice-Chancellor must have PhD and must not be less than 10 years post professorial appointment.” I want to say that there is nothing worthy to fight for over the post of vice-chancellor even being president of Nigeria. If people appreciate what leadership entails, many of us will not be running for leadership. But unfortunately, many of us look at the benefits of leadership without looking at the obligations. We should look at the essentials of leadership before we plunge in.
How much autonomy do you enjoy as a governing council chairman?
We were inaugurated in August 2016 and Governor Rauf Aregbesola left in November 2018. We appointed the VC, Registrar, Bursar without any interference. In fairness to governor Aregbesola and Gboyega Oyetola, they are good examples for other state governors that have universities. You should give free hands and the result is apparent in this university now. The quality of people appointed is very amazing. We have three professors, an accomplished industrialist and computer genius. These are accomplished people so, who do you push around?
How do you think the legal process can be reformed so that justice can be timely to Nigerians?
There is no perfection in all human institutions. The judicial system is not perfect. If you want to be best in any way, you must be party with the best. The working condition of our judges is appalling. In England, for example, most of the High Court judges are equivalent of our own Senior Advocate called Queen’s council. Then they leave practice and go and make an appointment as judges because their constitution is very conducive; the pay is good and working environment is excellent. You can’t deliver 21st-century service using 18th-century implements.
Nigeria is one of the few countries where judges still don’t use automation, that is, they write in longhand. You all watch the trial in US. It was so fast because they use automation. Judges have to be paid well than what they are earning now. Any serious successful lawyer will not go near appointment as a judge. We must continue to ensure we pick the very best in the system. Judiciary is not a place we should be doing quota system, especially at the apex court. It should be for the brightest and the most upright because knowledge without integrity is rubbish; integrity without knowledge is madness so the two must go together in anybody who want to be judge.
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