Senator Enyinnaya Abaribe is the Chairman, Senate Committee on Power, who is representing Abia South Senatorial District in the Red Chamber. In this interview with TAIWO ADISA, he speaks of the high hopes citizens had of Nigeria at independence and the lowering standards being experienced years after. He also speaks about the push for political solution to end the prolonged incarceration of IPOB leader, Mazi Nnamdi Kanu, among other issues. Excerpts:
It was reported that you walked out of the chamber during the consideration of emergency rule declaration on Rivers State. What were you driving at?
Well, I thought that they were subverting the constitution. That’s the way I felt with the whole thing. It is clear that you cannot approve a state of emergency through voice votes. You just must vote and get the two-thirds as required by the constitution. I felt they were not going to do that, so I left.
It looks strange that the National Assembly is running into another controversy while the Akpabio/Natasha issue is still fresh. How are you the ranking members taking these, especially the allegation against the Senate President by Senator Natasha Akpoti-Uduaghan?
I won’t be able to discuss the issue of the Senate President versus Senator Natasha, really because it is sub judice. We have it in our rules that the Senate will not discuss matters that are already before the court. So let us leave it at that.
You recently celebrated your 70th birthday, congratulations. But a lot of people would say you look much younger; how would you describe growing up in the South-East at the time?
Thank you. I think that what I will say is that I thank God and thank my family because not everyone gets to this point. With the statistics that says that only 3% of Nigerians get to 70, it means that if you get to this point, you must be very grateful to God. Not just to get to 70 but to get to 70 in good health which is basically one of the greatest gifts that God can give to any human being. As much as I thank God for being 70 and I thank all my friends, family, good will, I still have a sense of regret about Nigeria. I was five years old in 1960. I had just entered the elementary school when we celebrated independence on October 1. In my biography, I succinctly described the feeling of hope, the feeling of immense possibilities of the future which today does not look as if it’s going to be realized. So, I think that that is the only regret I’m having at the moment concerning being a Nigerian or being 70 in Nigeria.
Though, you were quite young when the independence came, but how did you interpret the happenings around you at the time?
I would just say that I didn’t know what was going on, all I knew was that we used to eat rice, sparingly, maybe every Sunday, if it ever comes, every fortnight, but we ate rice that day in school. And it was a very, very, I will put it now, ennobling experience, although we were having a good time. So, independence seemed to us to be a very good thing. I was also in secondary school in 1967 when the civil war broke, and we had to go home. The schools were shut down in the Eastern region then. So, for three years, we were not in school, until 1970 when we now went back and of course started from where we stopped, but then we had lost three years. I think eventually we made it up because by 1979 I think, which was just nine years after, from 1970-79, somebody from Igboland was the Vice President, so we thought also that there was a very strong reconciliation going on, but things have just deteriorated. What we see today is, what Ken Saro-wiwa said at the time he was alive that everything seems to have deteriorated, justice nowhere to be found, our standard of living crashed, people having to go through pains, you know, in this country. And while other countries are moving forward and people are doing better things, we seem to continue wallowing around in the same old miasma that led to the civil war and also led us to where we are, where ethnicity and not the fact that you’re a Nigeria and determines your opportunity. Where you come from determines your safety and your belonging. And you can now see that today in Nigeria, we have a country that does not inspire loyalty by people. So, people only mouth loyalty when they are on top and enjoying the perquisites of office in Nigeria. That’s only when they are loyal, when they are not, you don’t have what will make you see the country the way you ought to. Those are just one of the things that I will say that I regret about this country. This wasn’t what we looked forward to at that time that we ate independence rice in 1960.
If we look back a bit to the three years that you were out of school during the war, what was life, like then? Did you have to move from place to place?
Anybody who was in Biafra knew that you must keep moving in order to survive.
We lived in Aba, then by the time it was threatened, we moved to our village, which was about five miles from Aba. Then when the threat came further, we moved from there to Isialangwa. Then we moved across the Imo River to Mbaise. Then ultimately, we moved from Mbaise to Orlu, and we were in Orlu, which was in the hinterland there, in the centre of Biafra, when the final surrender came. So, we were always on the move. But of course, I was basically 10 years plus, so, I couldn’t really say that those three years between being 10 to 13 that I really had a grasp of all the things that were playing out and all that. It is today that when we’re reading the histories of all those things that happen that you can make sense of that. We’re not part of the conversation. We’re also not part of saying anything. And there’s of course sometimes too at that time it also felt like an adventure. You wanted to be part of the boys’ company; you wanted to go and fight the vandals. But of course, we also suffered the same deprivation, hunger and so forth. But I was lucky. My father was in the medical corps, so, we had access to the relief materials that were being sent by the foreign countries and the World Council of Churches and so forth. So those things helped.
For some time, you were in the academics after graduation from the university. How did you find yourself in politics?
Well, let’s say that I joined SCOA Nigeria after leaving the University, Bendel State University then. Now it’s Ambrose Ali University. After my master’s degree in the University of Benin, by 1982 I joined the Faculty of Social Science. And I can also say something here. When I went for the first interview to be employed by the university, by the Bendel State University then, the vice chancellor who led the interview panel was from Bendel State, Professor Aimaku, renowned medical professor from the University of Ibadan. I think. And the head of my department was also from Kogi State, the professor who later became Minister of Health under President Olusegun Obasanjo. So, my employment trajectory had nothing to do with being Igbo, that’s the key thing. So now I eventually left from the Bendel State University in 1985 I joined SCOA Nigeria. A person who made us join SCOA Nigeria was a Yoruba man, Mr. Ifaturoti. I think that time he was from one of the Western states. I didn’t know exactly which state now. I will say one thing, that was the triumph of integrity and the triumph of, I will say, somebody who looked at what was right rather than what was expedient. We had applied, we didn’t hear from anybody again. Later we now saw in the newspaper, some of us were invited for interview at WAEC headquarters and that was the first time WAEC was conducting computer-based interviews. So we all came, took the computer-based interview which now meant that it was not by hand or by knowing people and then they just chose us. So how did this happen? It was later that we found out that some people felt that nobody, but a Yoruba person should work there and so what now happened was that they removed all the people who passed, who were not Yorubas. And then when the man I called Mr. Ifaturoti a Yoruba man, found out, he said no, that cannot happen and he said,‘bring back everybody, let them all go and take a test, let’s now know’. By the time we finished, you saw that those who all passed, came from all parts of the country. So, he was the first person to tell me that there was nothing like ethnicity when the right thing needs to be don e. So you can now say that the first person to hire me to go to the university, a man from Kogi, second one a man from Western Nigeria, a Yoruba man. So, it was from there that I now ultimately left for Nicon and then eventually got into politics, and to get into politics which you want to know, it was not by any deliberate action. It was simply a dare. I had this elderly guy, and we were all in the church action group, we used to call it an action unit. So, we used to sit together, we used to talk about Nigeria. At that time I had taken a course on being an evangelist and all that. I was complaining. This was in 1998. I was complaining about the quality of people that I saw who were now running for offices. Those parties Chief Bola Ige described as five fingers of a leprous hand. And the man said to me only those who are in the system can change the system. So, why don’t you get involved? And I thought about it and I said, OK, let me go get involved. So that’s how I entered politics. Of course, I got the bruises early. First, it couldn’t work in 1998. I lost the primaries and then eventually those who won were also kicked out when Abacha died. And then the whole thing started again. Then I came back and ended up being a deputy governor. And of course, when I became a deputy governor. I mean the whole country knew. After the very short period of honeymoon, then we’ve descended into so much rancour. And then that whole thing which led to my being the first person to face impeachment three times from 1999 to 2003. Of course, all the three impeachments failed. Then I had to resign because I needed to run for an election and to run for an election in another party. I needed to leave my party. Then I went from PDP to ANPP. So, which is part of what we say. If you want to be consistent, people need to see you for what you are. And of course, I thank my people from Abia South and Nigerians who seem to actually know who has something that he can offer the people and those who don’t have. So, from that period, after I had resigned, lost the election, then came back four years later in 2007 to the Senate. And I have been in the Senate up to this time. So you can know from that, that it’s destined. It’s been a pretty good…
I recall that you had a turbulent period as deputy governor, now you and the then governor, Senator Kalu are in the Senate, serving the people of your state…
Let’s put it this way, those things we have put behind us. Now we are in the chamber together. And on my 70th birthday, he made a video recording which he sent, and we played it. And he extolled me and said that what was going on that time was first, inexperience and secondly that civil servants were putting our heads together so that they could benefit. And which is what I can also tell those people who are political gladiators fighting around now, that some people benefit from this fight and those people who benefit from this will never let it end. So, whenever you’re trying to make peace, they will tell you don’t make peace do this or go this way or make sure you punish this person and at the end of the day just like it has happened to both of us, you also leave office and then you now meet each other.
You are now a fifth-term Senator, which is one of the rare things we see in Nigeria. That means you are one of the elite class of lawmakers in Nigeria. How has it been serving your people as a senator?
Let me say this, serving the people has been very rewarding and has been one of those things that has made me feel that God has been very kind to me. Let’s also say that I do not feel that I’m actually an elite lawmaker as you put it. Every senator is the same once you come in you’re a senator. However, what it does for me is that I have some institutional memory, so I also come out to give my advice when certain things happen. Sometimes, the advice is taken, sometimes it’s not taken but that’s how things are. I can only say that I’m very grateful to Nigerians who have given me this opportunity and especially my senatorial district who have been giving me this very rare opportunity.
You instituted a unique constituency project style, some years back, which is called made in Aba trade fair. You used to bring manufacturers of different things from Aba to expose their products to the Abuja market. How did you come about that unique idea?
What happened was that I represent the very industrious people of Aba who produce things. And Aba is known as the capital of shoes, bags, clothing, and so on. And I felt that part of the problems was also exposure. Exposure not just outside Nigeria, but even to Nigerians. And we felt that if we expose them to let’s say Abuja, which is the capital of Nigeria, then you’re exposing them to the whole of Nigeria. So, we did two things at the same time. We tried to amend the public procurement act, which we did successfully, to ensure that you can only do procurement of something outside Nigeria, if it’s not produced within Nigeria. That was done, even though I don’t know whether they are operating it in all the ministries, departments, and agencies. And we partnered with SMEDAN at that time. And SMEDAN used to help us. And the constituency funds, which was for my constituency, we normally put it in SMEDAN and asked SMEDAN to help to now execute this made in Aba Trade Fair, we used to call it made in Aba Trade. And it was widely popular because the people would come with their goods and get both local and international exposure. And they will also get feedbacks, on how to improve their wares. Of course, people are now coming to buy direct from them. Right now, you see shoes, bags, leather belts and so on made from Aba not only all over Nigeria, but all over Africa. Let me just put it that way.
Let us go into the drama that preceded your election in 2023, I mean for this fifth time. You defeated an incumbent governor; it was like defeating an elephant in a battle…
I think political contexts are like that. In a political context, you present yourself and the opponent presents him or herself and the people weigh what normally would happen and the people would make a decision. I think that on the average, what they did was to say, do we go with what we know, or do we go with somebody that we don’t know? And I think that it was on that basis that they made their decisions. And of course, there were too many other factors that came in. Now I will say that one of the factors which assisted us was the fact that our results were uploaded immediately as they happened. Now the controversy we saw with the presidential election was that even though we did the elections the same time, the same day, the results of the presidential election were not uploaded immediately and the delays cost all manners of things and all manners of manipulations. So going for forward, what I would suggest, or what I would recommend, is that we continue to improve the system to reduce interference, human interference. Now, what happened in the last election? The last presidential election, what somebody said was that there was a glitch. So, what it means really is that we should also, in light of that, take measures in amending the electoral act now to say, if there’s a glitch, what happens? Do you continue with the election? Do you cancel the elections and do it subsequently? How do you treat the results that come when there’s a glitch? With the BVAS and all those improvements, there was a reduction in multiple voting and all those types of things. Yes, but then there is something that has happened in that time. So, if somebody takes a result that’s already uploaded, changes it and uploads again, what happens? If somebody takes a result, runs away with it, goes to rewrite it and then brings it back to upload. So, what I’m saying is that maybe we need to move up, just like the rest of the world, just like in India. In India, you press your button and the thing goes automatically. Now these days, like we have seen, our people vote for BB Naija and all those things. And it’s counted. And you can’t vote twice. Nobody disputes the result, because it’s open, I think the NBA is at the moment doing their voting that same way.
You stood in for Nnamdi Kanu and that landed you in trouble with the government. Do you feel obliged in the future to go into that kind of arrangement?
I think people ask me that question every time and I said that when the circumstances are the same, you always do the same thing. I can also say the same thing here. Some news broke recently, which i saw in the media, where they were saying that I halted the proceedings of the Senate and went ahead to say that unless Nnamdi Kanu is released. Such a thing never happened, and Nnamdi Kanu’s matter has not come up on the floor of the Senate. In any case, a matter in that is in court doesn’t come up on the floor of the Senate. So, I think those people who wrote that story never knew that matters that are sub-judice don’t come up on plenary sessions. So, I think they goofed there, you know, in telling those stories. Some of us, in the Senate, South-East caucus, South-East leaders caucus and the governors, all of us, we have all been pleading and asking for a political solution to the Nnamdi Kanu matter. I’m asking for his release. We have gone and we have met the attorney general, the National Security Adviser, the advisers to the president. And then we have also made appeals to church leaders, to everybody, to say part of the issues that bedevil, the South-East today is this matter. Yes. And so many people who are, I would say, purveyors of violence and unrestructured criminals are using it as a basis for claiming that they’re doing things on behalf of Biafra, they are not. We have several said so. We have spoken with Nnamdi Kanu himself. He has decried it. He has also come out publicly to say, “I have not sent anyone to go and disrupt the lives of the South-East people” is ‘if you want Biafra, why would you kill Biafrans?’ It doesn’t make sense.
So, we are also using this opportunity of my 70th birthday to ask my brothers who are indulging in all this to cease and desist. Nobody can say that this style of insurrection and insurgency and killing of your own people and kidnapping of your own people is meant for Biafra, it’s not, nobody can say that. We have talked to everyone and everybody, including Nnamdi Kanu himself, has said this is not the way to go. So, we are at the moment engaged in a diplomatic shuttle, with the power that be in Nigeria, to see how we can bring Nnamdi Kanu out.
Are you confident the political solution will work?
Yes, I’m in favour of the political solution. We are all involved in trying to get a political solution. Because we know that the way the legal process is going, it seems that at every time that you seem to have a headway, they will now introduce something and then we start all over again. And so, whether it is deliberate, whether it’s this thing we simply say, no more, let us resolve this issue. And also let Nnamdi Kanu have some rest. He has been extraordinarily renditioned from Kenya, which is against the laws of the nation, against international laws. And then he’s been kept in detention all this while, the trial has been going like a yo-yo. It goes up, goes down. So, we want to bring all this to an end. Just like my people have this saying. So as long as the South-East is held down, Nigeria is also held down. For those who feel that the rest of Nigeria can move on and let the South-East be held down, it doesn’t work that way. Every part of Nigeria ought to work at the same pace. So, we think that something urgent needs to be done.
I earlier described you as an elite member of the National Assembly. The statistics out there are very clear that the parliament doesn’t enjoy the trust of the people. What do you think can be done? And besides, the people believe that standards are falling, productivity of the legislature is going down. What can be done?
I think that what I can say is that whether it is the parliament at the federal or at the state level, the people feel that we’re just not doing anything. But in Nigeria, usually, it happens because the parliament is also the closest to the people. You can walk into a parliamentarian’s house. You can reach him easily. It also gives you the opportunity to also criticize him. Because let’s put it this way. If you’re a governor, you’re living in a government house. You’re isolated. Nobody can reach you easily. There’s a cocoon around you and you can’t just walk in and say you’re going to see the governor. You can’t. If you make an appointment to see a governor, you probably spend two, three months before you can get one. Yeah, but in parliamentarian they’re just walking to your house. If the person lives near you, he’s just in your backyard, so you stroll down there. In fact, my good friend who represents the Federal Capital Territory, he just says, well, all they need is a taxi drop in front of her house. There’s not much you can do. So, what it means is that as the arm of government that is closest to them. So of course, people will let out their frustrations. The failure of any government policy is also attributed to you because you are the closest to them. So, if the executive is not doing things right, you are to blame. Of course, also part of the problem is from us because in order to win elections, we also try to emulate the executive. So those things that the executive is supposed to do, that is their own function, we try to do it. So, when a legislator tries to put one block on top of the other and say, I’ve done a school or I’ve done all that, what you are not supposed to do, because your job is to make laws. So, the public, of course, will misunderstand you and say that what you’re doing is not enough. Oh, you just did this one school and you’re shouting, what are you talking about? Meanwhile, it is not your job. But so, for the public to be able to correctly discern what your proper function and roles are, it’s a very difficult thing. And so, you can’t blame the public because if I show up and I said, oh, I have done this school, of course, I’m not taking responsibility for the job of the executive. And so, in that same manner, if the executive is failing in any way, not doing a road or anything, then they will blame you as a part of it. They say, you’re part of it, you know. So, there’s no way we can win any which way we go. We fall into the same trap of being equated with the executive. Whereas we do not have the same opportunity of determining things. For example, I’m a senator. But to do a road in my place, I have to go and make sure it enters the budget. If it’s in the budget, it has to be done by an arm of the executive. Now, that arm of the executive has to wait to get a funding from another arm of the executive. If the funding doesn’t come, then that road doesn’t get built. If the funding comes, then the road starts to be built. And so, by the time we go through all these different steps, you find out that so many things are not done. Because of course, let’s say in 2025, by the time we were considering the budget, we found out, well, in 2024 budget, we found out that only 30% of the capital budget has been implemented. So what it means also is that not more that 30% of whatever you have put in the overall budget for your constituency may have been done. So, you can find the dilemma which every legislator faces. And so, well, and of course, we also have seen situations where even if you struggle very hard to make good laws, you contribute to debates, you contribute to anything, you make sure that a law that is brought by the executive is sharpened and is done in such a way that will help the society, somebody will just wake up and say, oh, he’s been there for four years. He hasn’t even passed one bill in his name. As if you have to always pass a bill in your name. It’s such a, catch 22 situation, which the person has to meet. That’s unfortunate. But what we will pray for is for the public to understand us better. If the public understands us better, then it will probably be good, and then also to understand that only less than 3% of the federal budget gets to the legislature. And so, for even those who say, oh, that is just wasteful and all that, if you remove 3% out of 100%, what do you actually say? You say you have 97% controlled by the executive. So that is the issue about funding and our way of life.
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