Honourable Joshua Izang Madaki a lawyer and former Speaker, Plateau State House of Assembly, talks about the impeachment clause in the 1999 Constitution, separation of powers in a democracy, among other issues, in this interview by LILIAN SATY.
How would you describe Nigerian democracy after 22 years?
Indeed, democracy in 22years of practice in Nigeria, we have a lot of stories to tell. At the initial stage of democracy in 1999, nobody believed it will stay this long because of the fear of the unknown. The long story of the military in power necessitated such fears but we have had our take into democracy. Today, by the grace of God, we have graduated from nursing democracy after 22years of permanent democratic government in this country. We can no longer classify ourselves as nursing. Initially we have some of the challenges that comes with it but at a moment such challenges are very minimal. However, on the side of governance, we have seen it in practical terms where the constitution that is meant for the people and the governance of this country is being upheld. Alot of changes have come to bear.
To what extent have the political elite learnt useful lessons from the past so as to give hope for a better tomorrow for Nigerians?
I want to believe the political elites of this country at the moment have learnt a good number of wonderful lessons. When we all started the journey in 1999, you will recall that the reigning thing then was the god-fatherism factor. If you want to contest for any position and you do not seem to have the blessings of a godfather in the state, you will have to forget about such aspirations because it will lead you nowhere. We contended with alot of phenomenon to the extent it has faded now. It took an aspirant some concerted efforts to take some little contents of salt, seasoning products, wrapper and the rest of them just to win an election. But today, citizens and the electorate are enlightened beyond that stage. You have to possess what it takes, the charisma, ability and quality to be in such an office, is what the people are looking out for. And in the past, whoever had been in power hardly lost in an election. We have seen where some House of Representatives’ members have transformed to become governors; governor’s transforming to become National Assembly members, senators elect and the rest of them and without them losing. But of recent, we have seen that if you do not seem to have any scorecard that will speak for you, the electorate will just go there and sacrifice you for a better candidate. These were some of the lessons learnt by our elites. I want to believe the elites, at a moment, have understood that it’s not all about money; it is not all about the influence of a godfather that will just give you and that’s all. People want to take a decision for themselves as to who actually they give their mandates of representation in governance and he goes there to do what they ask him to do. If he deviates and later comes back looking for them, they will surprise him by woefully failing him and substituting him with another.
The principle of separation of powers is pivotal in a democratic practice, but we seem to have serious challenges going on the practice?
The principle of separation of power under the 1999 Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria as amended is a fundamental doctrine that regulates and separates the constitutional functions of the three arms of government as contained under section 4 of the 1999 Constitution, which is the enabling law that establishes the legislative arm of government and defines it’s powers and functions. Fundamental function of the legislative arm of government is that of law making and there are other functions also attached to that. Then, going next to section 5 of the same constitution is the section that provides the executive as an arm of government thereby defining it by specifying all its powers and functions across all tiers of the judiciary in its hierarchy.Separation of power is a fundamental doctrine under every democratic government whereby it forbids any form of interwoven functions of these three arms of government across all tiers, be it federal, state or local government. Now, the doctrine of separation of power has come to stay in particular under democracy. You cannot operate in democracy without the principle of separation of power playing a critical and fundamental role in the running of the affairs of government. By the constitutional powers contained under sections 4,5 and 6 of the 1999 Constitution, each of these arms of executive is in charge of the power of execution of policies and programs of government and implementation of such laws. The judiciary is saddled with the responsibility of interpreting what the law is all about and what belongs to each arm and not the other. So separation of power is very fundamental in the success of every democratic government and in particular ours in Nigeria. It is no longer rumours, indeed the principle of separation of powers plays cardinal roles and that is why the executive does their own and the legislature also does their own and the judiciary as well.
The challenges that have to go with this separation of power are enormous. Of recent under this dispensation, despite the autonomy of the judiciary, we have seen how Justices of the Supreme Court were raided in their own residences. Some of their officers were whisked away without due compliance to constitutional laws of the land. We have also seen instances that the judiciary in our own context is under trial. They issue judgements and orders against the executive, and agencies of government and they failed to obey or abide by the judgement and orders of the courts of law that are saddled with the power to interpret and pass judgment or make orders where necessary or declarations. To some extent, that also negates the principle of rule of law that must be seen to be estranged by all government and arms of government. That is a fundamental challenge.
As a former speaker, how would you rationalise the impeachments of principal officers of the legislature, including the one witnessed in Plateau State weeks ago?
The rationale behind impeachments of speakers or removal of speakers from their offices is what we have to contend with under democracy particularly as it relates to issues of parliament, either at the national or state Houses of Assembly. In the first instance, it is a position of one among equals. All members are equal; the only thing is that it is the agreement of the members to make one among them their leader. And where there is loss of confidence on such a leader of the legislative arm, the end result is that of removal or impeachment. However, these practices have been with us right from inception of democracy even in other climes not necessarily in Nigeria. But the situation with the Plateau State House of Assembly’s impeachment of recent has to do more with the members that are right now there serving. When we just woke up inOctober and discovered the House is under hurdles of removal of their then speaker;he was the only one that was removed. In Some state Houses of Assembly, you will see the removal will have to do with all the principal offices of that assembly. Some will have to take along the speaker and his deputy or speaker and majority leader, depending on the circumstances in the parliament. However, that of the Plateau State House of Assembly under the rules of the house as it operates under the 9th assembly at the moment, one-third of the members of the house constitute a quorum. In the House of 24 members, one-third will give you eight. Once therefore eight members and a presiding officer either the speaker himself or his deputy,the clerk is there and the sergeant and army, they have constituted the necessary quorum to conduct a sitting that will be binding on other members. And atimes, in parliament while the decision to conduct sittings with one-third members is very necessary is because where coincidentally other members that are chairmen and members of standing committee wants to embark on oversight, they might not alter the proceedings of sittings . That is where one-third comes. On the process and procedure of removal of the speaker, you must collect two-third signatures of the serving members at the moment. And two-thirds of the 24 members will give 16. Now the argument as it has lingered has been, eight members which is the requirement of their quorum convene a sitting and they collected 16’signatories for the impeachment of the speaker and they so moved a motion and presented that 16 signed number of members who have endorsed the impeachment of the leader and the clerk confirms and the speaker stands impeached. What you and I will not understand is that it is the provision of the law that two-thirds members is required but all aspects of it were not well tidied. It did not say 16 members in a sitting and present where there is sufficient signature, you will just pass it.
That is what the House Rule presents and the members that impeached the speaker are laying claims that they were in compliance with due process of the law and if anybody seems unsatisfied, they should go and challenge them in the court of law. Now, you and I know that in such situation, it is the clerk that is the umpire and the clerk is immune by law not to release such classified documents except he is so requested or required by the competent court of law. He reveals to court not individuals. Nobody will ascertain that but so long as the clerk confirms the substantial requirements, it stands and today, whether you like it not, the speaker is no more in office. So as it stands, this is the situation and the dilemma in the ninth assembly of the Plateau State. Already a new speaker has emerged; he has been given all the recognition on the side of the executive and he operates as such. But there can never be a vacuum, except where we are able to get the Houses of Assembly that will understand why they need to tidy the provision that has to do with the removal of any of the principal officers in the House of Assembly to be so rigid if not, just on a motion of vote of no confidence the leader of the legislative arm of government is on his verge of leaving. And talk more of being backed by collected number of signatures. So, presently that is the provision. But my general advice to all state parliaments is: there should be more stringent requirements when it comes to the aspect of removal or change of leadership of their leaders where such an exercise will be carried in absentia simply because you have endorsed your signature is not sufficient. Let it be done by voice vote, or by open voting or by endorsement in the sitting of that very day. That will bring in sanity into the system.
Most Nigerians are apprehensive of the current state of the nation, due to multifaceted challenges. As a leader, what do you think we need in the quest to restore the past glory of Nigeria?
In the recent past as a nation, we have submitted our image and integrity before the international communities. Nigeria is a signatory to so many international treaties, regional treaties and we are supposed to be strictly guided but of recent, Nigeria has suffered in terms of its integrity and reputations before the committee of nations at the international level. Over time, you will wake up and hear Nigeria is blacklisted on so and so ground; Nigeria is delisted as a member of so and so and yet back home, this is a blessed nation that has all it takes in terms of intellectual resources, economic indices and potentials which we do not lack. Across the globe, Nigeria has proved its worth by some of its citizens that have attained international and global recognitions. The likes of Dr Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala that heads the World Trade Organisation (WTO) but back home, issues that are supposed to be tackled internally, we are still battling with it year in year out, which has portrayed us in bad light amongst committee of nations. A change of mindset is required from both the leaders and the citizens for an effective fight against corruption, uncompromising tolerance, and credible process of electioneering among others. These among many are what we need to have, a total rebirth of this great black nation at the end of the day we will be respected by other races of the world.
and then