The National Chairman of the Action Democratic Party (ADP), Yagbagi Sanni, and presidential candidate of the party in the 2019 and 2023 elections speaks with General Editor, TAIWO ADISA, on the February 25, 2023, presidential election, difficulty of running against the party in power and why the government needs to deal with corruption in the oil sector. Excerpts:
You were a presidential candidate in the last election. How would you describe your experience?
What I can say is, you know our democracy is still developing and what happened, of course, was not anything you can describe as ideal. Though an ideal situation does not exist when it comes to politics, at least, there are certain ethos that are observed for the preservation of democracy itself. But in a situation whereby we have a mercantile type of thing, [such that] the umpire was easily compromised and, in that situation, you cannot say you have a level playing field. And if such [level playing field] does not exist, it will be difficult for that contest to meet the minimum requirement of an acceptable election.
Before the election, INEC used to organise meetings with stakeholders at the level of leadership of the parties and candidates. Were there no assurances before the election that the exercise will be free and fair or that some of your concerns would be taken into consideration?
Yes, remember I was the chairman of, the Inter-Party Advisory Council, IPAC. So, I am aware of these interactions with INEC. But it is one thing to promise and another thing to completely fulfil your promise. I always say that all of us are victims of the situation, including INEC. Now, you can liken it to a football match where one side of the contest appoints all the officials of the tournament –the referees, linesmen, match officials and others. Not a single one is outside. Now, if you are an official and somebody appointed you, to pay your salary and the rest, how do you go to that party to complain or say you will not do what you have been mandated to do? So, they are human beings and that was why I said all of us are victims. If you now take that against the background of high levels of poverty, where people are easily compromised by virtue of their economic circumstances, you can now see why I am saying that our democracy is still at its embryonic stage and the things that are supposed to be there are not there yet. Perhaps, if you had a situation where there is a high level of affluence in the society, people are contended because they have their economic independence … this scenario of one contestant appointing all the officials, who are going to officiate that match, is not good enough. But to again compound the issue, it was under the environment that is so prevalent with poverty, ignorance. That was the condition under which we contested.
After the results were announced, winners declared and all that, did you find it pressing enough to contest the election at the tribunal?
The same scenario will play out. Where are you going to take your case: the judiciary? Who appoints the judiciary? And this is an interested party. So, the more you go there… the man you are going to meet there is a man. Who puts him there? The man you are going to meet there is human. He was put there under the guise of ‘independence’ but it does not work like that.
But people will have to contest elections and if the scenario you painted subsists, how do we escape from such a situation?
People will have to escape the futility of the system we have now as per the issue of democracy, a level playing field and having people participate and have a fair chance of winning elections. With this circumstance we are in now, I don’t know how people will win or defeat the incumbent parties.
Are you now calling for constitutional amendment or restructuring?
Of course, it has to be a constitutional amendment. Constitution describes all the things I have talked about, which are anomalies when you look at them critically. That’s why respected jurists like [Mohammed] Uwais, Senator Ken Nnamani and Sheik Ahmed Lemu said the same thing in different reports. They said the same thing. Look at where these people are coming from: one from the Judiciary, another from the Legislature and the other one a respected cleric. That tells you that something is wrong fundamentally and, until we address it, there is no way we can get it right. So, Nigerians need to wake up to this reality unless they want to continue to fool themselves, kill themselves, burn down places and all that, because where there is injustice, what do you find? Crisis and instability.
Despite the circumstances you painted, a party like Labour Party came on board and made some appreciable in-road into certain states. Does this not mean that there could be a way by which smaller parties can go around these issues?
No, no, no. The Labour Party is not a good example at all because LP came up as a result of two scenarios that played out. One was the case of a particular ethnic group believing that they have been marginalised when it was their turn. The Igbo believed that if power must shift to the South, they are the rightful people to be considered and supported since the South-West has had it before. So, it was a movement by an ethnic group.
Second, there was also another movement by the youth, which was not enough to achieve what was achieved. So, they had to add the colouration of what has been accepted and the sentiments that determine political victories in this country, because it is either on a religious basis or regional basis or that of ethnicity. So, one of these factors was playing to the advantage of the Labour Party.
Now, we have the 10th Assembly in place and they are also going to look at a review of the constitution and the Electoral Act. What will you recommend to them as the areas that should be touched?
I have just talked about the three reports and they are there for everybody. If they really want to work for this country and for the advancement of Nigeria, nobody needs to tell them what to do as they actually know what to do. The Electoral Act 2022 also needs to be clearer, especially on the issue of transmission of results by INEC to its portal for viewing by the populace. It should not be ambiguous. Don’t tell me they didn’t know what they were doing. They knew. We still have certain aspects of the amendments that are either constitutional or Electoral Act.
The administration of President Bola Tinubu is over two months now; how are you reading his early days?
There are some steps he has taken that the people have hailed. His decision on removal of fuel subsidy was welcomed by many people not because they are not feeling the pain, but because they believe that it would help eliminate corruption and tendencies like that. But he needs to go deeper than just removing subsidy. The government agreed that some money has been saved or recovered, running into trillions of Naira. So who was stealing that money before now? That is something we must look at. So, who was stealing the money? If the CBN was stealing the money, who was the person? Somebody was responsible for that money in the NNPC and what have they done to the NNPC people who were, in fact, buying the subsidised fuel? They were the ones importing the fuel, not any marketer. So, who in NNPC has been arrested or questioned to the knowledge of Nigerians?
Are you advocating that NNPC goes under probe?
Yes, I am joining those who have been saying that the NNPC should go under probe. They say that we are in this mess because of the management of the subsidy, but who are the managers? Should they go scot-free? They need to come and explain to Nigerians why they allowed people to steal the money, about 60 or 73 million litres per day. Now, it is down to a little above 30 million. What happened to the remaining 35 million litres? Who was stealing that money? Where was the fuel going to? We should also ask why they have not fixed the refineries. They should explain. What are they doing with the crude of about 440,000 barrels per day meant for local consumption? Call it oil swap, who was buying it and who were they giving it to? For eight years, how can they allow that kind of thing to continue? This is not rocket science.
The administration of former President Obasanjo designed the policy of swap, 445,000 barrels per day for local consumption. So, why did it work under that regime and did not work under the Buhari administration?
It was because they killed the refineries so that the crude will be available to them to sell to their friends, and they will now go again to buy the product and sell it at an international rate to Nigerians. So, they were earning commissions at both ends. And you say you are not going to probe those thieves?
The other policy introduced by the administration is the issue of Naira floating; how do you see the management of the floating currency?
That was barely under the CBN policy of Emefiele, but what about the main cause, which was the sale of crude oil? What have they done to the importation of subsidised fuel? Why is nobody being brought to book?
Because of the policy on Naira, the Naira has depreciated and it is almost N900 to the dollar and that is fuelling inflation. What advice will you give to the government in that regard?
What I will advise the government to do is the point I have been making on the stealing going on from crude oil and gas. All these things are being stolen. NEITI comes out with reports every year on the huge billions of dollars we lose. Many investigations have been carried out to say that we are losing about 800,000 barrels per day. We are losing all these but who is responsible for the stealing? See, it is like having a leaked bucket, and you know that no matter how much water you put inside, it will disappear and you won’t see anything there. So, the financial leakages in the oil and gas sector must be dealt with before we can begin to say we will be able to sustain our Naira at a level that the country can afford or is reasonable. But the source of income is being stolen on a daily basis, not that we are imagining it. So, deal with that so that you can have enough revenue to sustain your Naira.
But the stealing in that sector appeared to have defied our security agencies because, despite the presence of security operatives, the leakages in terms of daily crude losses have continued. How best do we monitor the oil production process then?
See, anybody who is familiar with that industry will tell you that anybody you send from the security outfit to go and monitor those people are easily compromised. In fact, instead of protecting the interest of the nation, they are protecting the interest of the thieves. So, that has to be addressed. The way to go is to deal with your own traditional system of security and manage the bad eggs. You cannot outsource the security of your economy to individuals even when these individuals themselves are part of the problems because the solution you are bringing on board is not permanent. They are solutions that raise another question. So, the only thing you can do is to ensure that your security outfit is disciplined and we should be able to do that. Employing Tompolo or somebody else is not the solution at all because those ones are there for economic interest and can easily be swayed. But somebody you have employed to protect the interest of the nation, you pay him well and ensure that when he does not do his job, he is dealt with. That is how other countries are surviving. If you go to all these developed countries, things are working fine because the laws are being enforced. If we don’t do that, we cannot have our economy function in the way it is supposed to function to provide for Nigerians.
Somebody has suggested that, for the sake of the small parties, we should return to the era of government funding political parties because they are sources of leadership recruitment. Do you agree with that?
You see, it is a double-edged issue in the sense that political parties are supposed to be independent of government. The government is supposed to depend on political parties, not the other way round. So, because of that superior level of our operation, there are certain things that government can do to make parties grow and be able to fend for themselves. When you start funding political parties as a government, definitely, parties will become an appendage of the government and the issue of discipline would not be there. Also, if the government is funding political parties, how will the parties be able to challenge the government? Then, what we are trying to run away from may happen – a one-party system.
During Obasanjo, I think they started it as the government was, through INEC, giving funds to the parties. I think at a point it encouraged people to register as many as 100 parties and that made the National Assembly review the policy
Yes, that’s one side of it, another side is even the role the party is supposed to play and the fact that you don’t want to become a one-party state.
During the last election, your party lost some grounds, particularly in the presidential, governorship and other areas. How are you galvanising your members to continue to build on the successes of the past and prepare for future elections?
Well, we are galvanising our people by telling them that the system, as it is today, is not what is intended to be. Also, political parties and other interest groups are looking at how to reform the electoral processes so that parties can begin to make more impact. If you look at the hue and cry that greeted the last election, you will observe that the majority of people are not happy. So, we believe that the situation will arise, whereby parties will be able to win seats in the National Assembly, State Assembly and even the Presidency. It is not something that can be done overnight; it takes a process and the process is on. If you read the report of the European Union and other observers, it points to the fact that what we have today is not something that is ideal. I am yet to get one report that did not contain what happened except that of the ruling party. So, if that is the case, it means there is room for improvement. Don’t also forget that there are cases before the court and we are yet to hear the final ruling of the court. So, we believe our party will get stronger before the next election. Whether we like it or not, nobody will tell you that what happened was the best at all; it is just because we want democracy to survive. If you remember the role we played at the International Conference Centre when the collation of results was ongoing, some people pulled out. But we insisted that the process must go on so that we can continue to discuss democracy, not something else. If that process was truncated that day, nobody knows what will be the outcome. There would have been chaos and the military could use that as an excuse and we don’t want that to happen.
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