Head of Region 21 of the Redeemed Christian Church of God (RCCG), Pastor Charles Obasa, speaks with SEGUN ADEBAYO and IMOLEAYO OYEDEYI on the imminent visit of the RCCG General Overseer to rural communities in Oyo State, how Christianity has shaped politics in Nigeria, as well as how he ended up as a pastor despite being trained as a chartered accountant.
Being the regional head of a church as big as the Redeemed Christian Church of God, and overseeing its affairs from where you are now, how challenging has it been?
I want to believe that when God gives you an assignment, He also gives you the enablement and the wherewithal to meet up with whatever challenge the assignment can throw at you. So, the summary is grace. God says He will make His grace sufficient. Yes, it is a lot of work, if one understands that our region, region 21 of RCCG, just like you have been told, covers the whole of Oyo State and we have 18 provinces, 15 within the city of Ibadan and three outside Ibadan, Ogbomoso, Oyo town, and Iseyin. Yes, the work is large, but God is helping us.
Looking at the journey you have had so far, what can you say precisely prepared you for this job?
God will always be God, because He sees the end from the beginning and there is also what is called preordination, which spiritually implies that God knows where a fellow will be in future. Even if such a fellow has no idea of that future, God will begin to prepare him for the assignment ahead. We have a good example of our father in the Lord; he never knew he would become a pastor as his ambition was to become the youngest vice-chancellor in Africa, and he was preparing for it. He has PhD in Hydrodynamics in Mathematics, and was doing very well before the call came. But the training he had was not in vain as it held him in good stead along the line. Because he is well educated, he has been able to live with high and mighty professionals across borders. So, when God calls you, He knows where you will be in the future and He prepares you for it. I trained to become a chartered accountant, a chartered tax expert, a chartered management consultant and a few other things. So, I was not expecting I will be a full-time pastor, but here I am.
Pastor Adeboye will be visiting Oyo State soon, but why do you think he has chosen to visit Lalupon and Ago-Are instead of the major towns in the state?
Well, I think in 2019, Daddy was at the Liberty Stadium in Ibadan. And after that, he visited Ogbomoso and Iseyin. But for this year, he decided that he wants to go to Lalupon and Ago Are, which are not big towns. And the issue is Jesus died for all. He died for both the city and rural dwellers. Not only that, Daddy has even mandated us in the Redeemed Christian Church of God to go and start planting churches in the rural areas. So we are focusing on rural church planting now all over the country. So, we may call it a strategic move or a shift. But in any case you may choose to look at the move, it is biblical, as Jesus died for all. Our mandate in RCCG is a global one, because we are sent to people of all races, either white, yellow or black. Whether they live in the city, in the bush or in hamlets, we are sent to them all. The gospel of Jesus just has to get to everyone. So visiting rural areas is perfectly in order.
But sir, how do you think the crusades in Lalupon and Ago Are will be beneficial to the people?
The Bible says that where the word of the King is, there is power. Anywhere the word of God is preached, the power and presence of God will be present. And, anywhere you have the presence of God, His power and glory needed to do all things will be there. So, those who will go to the crusades, as they hear the word of God, all their problems will be solved. Those who are sick will receive their healing. The barren will receive the touch of God and become fruitful. Those who have been tied down and oppressed by the devil will also be set free. That is the power in the word of God. So, for these crusades, we are expecting the people in their hundreds and thousands and we are very sure that they will see the hands of God once they come with their faith. As part of plans, we have put in place measures in compliance with the COVID-19 regulation protocols.
From the look of things, RCCG appears to be one of the biggest churches around with branches everywhere, which is not something the general overseer will be able to handle alone. So having someone like you helping the ministry, do you see this as something really challenging?
The whole thing underscores the awesomeness and faithfulness of God. The founder of this church, Pa Josiah Olufemi Akindayomi of blessed memory, was an illiterate when God gave him the vision of starting the church, in downtown Ebute Meta, close to the lagoon in 1952. The church will be 80 years old next year. It never crossed his mind that the church will be like this, but God told him this church would be in the whole world, and that when He returns, He will meet the church on earth. He gave the founder that promise. By the time he died in 1980, RCCG only had 40 parishes majorly in the South-West. The current General Overseer took over in 1981, and you see where God has taken the church, because He (God) is faithful. RCCG is in 197 nations of the world as I am speaking to you, and we are still expanding. In Nigeria alone, we have close to 50,000 parishes. It is just the faithfulness of God, when He promises, He will not back out on his promise.
You said you were trained as a chartered accountant. How easy was it for you to make that switch to pastoral work and was there a time you ever felt you should not have left your job for this?
This is where the call comes in; you don’t just leave what you are doing to become a full-time pastor if you are not sure God has called you. We have many part-time pastors in RCCG, and they are doing well. They are combining their business, professions and their jobs with pastoring, we have several of them. But when God calls you full-time, you must know that this is a definite call from God. It took me between five to six years before I could know my own calling, because I struggled against it. Of course, you should understand: how can a professional leave what he is doing and to become a full-time pastor, where what they will pay you is just stipends, because they believe that the God who calls you is the one who will pay you? That is what they will tell you when you go for an interview and that is how I started.
Apart from the fact that you did not want to leave what you were doing; were you waiting for a personal conviction?
Yes, I was waiting for a personal conviction which, along the line, came, but the human being in me would not want to leave certainty for uncertainty. With the way our brain could understand at that time, it is like you are leaving the known for the unknown. It was a measure of high risk. You want to take a salary these days, maybe N50,000 per month and you are married[and blessed] with children, it will be natural for you to think twice. How do you cope? How do you feed your family? These are the natural things that will come to your mind. But along the line, it will get to a point that you will say “God is able”, because He is a faithful God. If He has called you, then He is more than able to take care of you. When God gives you a vision, He will make provision for it; that is the way it was. But you don’t arrive at that conclusion suddenly; it takes a process, which can be long. It even takes some people longer. Some never even arrive at the conclusion, because they are afraid.
God is faithful, but it takes a process before your fear will be allayed. As you tarry in His presence, pray and seek His face, study His word, you will arrive at a point where you are convinced, not that you will still be guessing. From the day I said yes to God, which is 21 years ago, I have never looked back.
Challenges must surely come, that is the truth. It must surely come. In the book of Isaiah 43: 2, God said: “When you pass through deep waters, I will be with you; your troubles will not overwhelm you. When you pass through fire, you will not be burned; the trials that come will not hurt you.” So, it is a matter of when, not if. Challenges will come. But in all these, when you know as a child of God that He that is in you is greater than he that is in the world, as the scripture has said, there is no way such things will overwhelm you. If you look unto God who is the author and finisher of your faith and your trust is deeply rooted in Him, then no shaking; you will pass through whatever it is and find light at the end of the tunnel.
Nigeria is a praying nation, and we know we are very religious people, but over the years, we have heard several people say that Nigeria’s problem has gone beyond prayers. So, as a man of God with the years of experience you have had in the ministry, do you really think Nigeria’s problem has gone beyond prayers?
There is no problem beyond prayer. In fact, every problem needs prayer. When there is no problem, you pray; when there are problems, you pray! Prayer is the only power we have as Christians for victory, because God has been very clear about it. He said: “pray without ceasing”. He said “ask and it shall be given, knock and the door shall be open, seek and ye shall find.” He said whoever asks: shall receive. So, the formula is ask. You have to ask. That is the power we have as Christians.
Imagine a Nigeria where they don’t pray, our case would have been worse than this. You know, at times you wonder what is keeping Nigeria together. You cannot just explain it. There is one unseen hand still keeping this nation together. One country in North Africa went up in flames because of an increase in the price of bread.
Look at Nigeria, with all the challenges, with all we are going through, the country is still together, we are still intact, and there is an unseen hand of God. There was a former president of Nigeria, who said he just couldn’t understand how Nigeria is still going on, it is beyond him. It is because people are praying. There is no country in Africa like Nigeria, none in this world pray like we do, that is why we somehow always survive our travails.
Do you really think that Nigeria will survive?
Yes! Nigeria is going to survive this. We may not be able to explain this, but Nigeria will go through this and survive.
I was at a forum recently, and the pastor was saying that the major problem with Nigeria is leadership, and others were arguing that the problem is with us the followership because people get what they deserve. What is your take on this, do you really think Nigerians are the problem of Nigeria or the leadership?
Both the followership and leadership are Nigerians, and the problems of Nigeria can only be solved by Nigerians, we cannot bring anybody from outside to come solve our problems. That is why for years, Christians have shied away from politics, and it has cost us a lot. We regarded politics as dirty, yes it may be dirty because of the way it is played in Nigeria but then, you do not solve a problem by running away from it. By the time we realised we should not be running away, we have some time.
Thank God we are beginning to see now we must be actively involved in politics; we just have to be there. Yes, it may be dirty, but let some who can clean the place be there. Everybody must be involved, both followership and leadership have a role to play. As we have bad leaders, we have bad followers. No one can be a good leader if you cannot be a good follower, because leadership flows from followership. So, the kind of leadership we have now might be a reflection of the kind of society that we have, the decadence and decay in the society. It is the society that throws these leaders up, some people voted for them. The leaders cannot be better than the society that produces them. Everyone has a role to play, everyone is a stakeholder in this fight.
and then