In this interview with WALE AKINSELURE, Chief Tokunbo Ajasin, Federal Commissioner, representing Ondo State on the Revenue Mobilisation Allocation and Fiscal Commission (RMAFC), and one of the children of a former governor of Ondo State, the late Chief Adekunle Ajasin, speaks on Governor Rotimi Akeredolu situation and governance in Ondo State, the President Bola Tinubu administration, leadership of the country over the years.
Ondo State has been in the news for some months because Governor Rotimi Akeredolu has not returned to the governor’s office, Akure, since his arrival in Nigeria from medical vacation in Germany. While various reactions, developments have trailed the situation, the concern for many is that governance in the state has not progressed, as expected, because the governor is not seen resuming in office. What do you make of this quagmire in Ondo?
Anybody can get sick. It is unfortunate that the way this situation has occurred. There should not have been apprehension except for the fact that only a selected people have heard from the governor, for a while. Just before he travelled the first time, we talked and he said he was going to Canada and he parted but the next thing I heard was that he has left Canada for Germany. I kept calling his number, sending messages to follow up on him but there was no response until the time he came back. When he came back, a lot of people were seeing him. By that time, I had travelled but my wife was in the country and saw him. There was a time people were able to see him. Unfortunately I was not around then. By the time I came back, I tried to see him. I called his number, sent messages, no response, so I called his Chief Protocol but he said I must get direct message from the governor before I could be allowed to come. I argued that my wife said there was a window on Tuesday and Thursday to see the governor. He said that had been suspended. Since then, I have not been able to see him. We have a good relationship and I am able to speak with him on any topic, so I was worried why I can’t see him. I told the Chief Protocol to help tell the governor that I had been trying to reach him. I talked to a few of my friends who I figured could have seen him but some of my friends also narrated their experience trying to see the governor and unable to see him, so I figured that it must be a very serious situation. That was how I felt until much later when people started to spread reports that he was dead, I kept saying, ‘God forbid,’ and praying for him to be back on seat. I didn’t know it would drag this long and if it this long, something must be happening, but I don’t know what it is. Ordinarily, I feel he would talk to his people, make a broadcast, even from Ibadan but nobody is hearing him. This is giving room for people to say all sorts. If he simply is seen publicly talking to his people, that would have been helpful. But, no message. And people started to come up with rumours that he is incapacitated, that he can’t talk, that he has been flown back to Germany, that he is dead. You hear all sorts. I felt I was close enough for me to know. So, except people who are close to him, nobody knows. So, that is the situation.
The concern is that that situation is taking its toll on governance in Ondo State.
Definitely! In fact, I was supposed to go there with a team from the Revenue Mobilisation and Fiscal Commission (RMAFC) to do some work in Ondo State, but the governor was not around. The deputy was busy resolving his own issue with the State House of Assembly – the impeachment thing was on that time. So, there was nobody to talk to. We were there and nobody to attend to us. The senior officials that we could talk with were not available. Obviously, there is a governance problem because nobody to talk to. But, lately, when President Bola Tinubu called the stakeholders in Ondo State, I thought that was a good move and I was very happy. Since they have come back, I don’t know what the situation is. I believe the president would have told them to do certain things in accordance with the stipulations of the constitution. I believe he would have talked to the governor too to arrive at whatever resolution is to the problem.
What should the governor do in the present situation?
I think he should follow the Constitution. Unfortunately, I don’t know the problem the deputy governor has with people. I think people are anxious and are looking at the future, they want to contest for the position. Unfortunately, they are not thinking of the governor. If they think of the governor, this is not the time to play politics. But, I don’t know the politics the deputy has been playing because some have accused him of being happy when the governor was sick. I find things I hear difficult to believe. Some say they expect the deputy governor to be sympathetic. From what I know of the relationship before Akeredolu became sick, he and his deputy were very close and nothing wrong. Some of the things he said about his deputy do not give me the impression that the deputy is disloyal. It is only now that this disloyalty question came on board. That is why I am surprised. And that is what is causing non governance because people figure that he is disloyal and they don’t want him to be there.
Since May 29 that President Bola Tinubu assumed office, Nigerians have continued to groan under more and more hardship. The President has asked Nigerians to bear with the suffering that it is only for a while. Is he moving the country in the right direction? Some Nigerians say it is still too early to assess the Tinubu administration?
It’s early alright but when he came into government, a lot of things had gone wrong. I kept saying it, that is why I felt reluctant participating in the whole thing because at that time, the All Progressives Congress (APC) wasn’t doing well, despite being in government. The government was borrowing money not for capital projects but for recurrent expenditure; money to pay salaries. The Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN) was deceiving us with the way things were being done. It was like you’re powerless, you can’t do certain things but these things were there. The party didn’t lay a good foundation for someone who is coming. He has assumed office and inherited both the assets and liabilities but the liabilities are much. When you get somewhere newly and you have to rectify things that are wrong, it will be more difficult. So, you have to wait. Unfortunately, people are not patient and I understand why people find it difficult to wait. You have been suffering and want the pains ameliorated but someone comes and puts in more pains. They will do those things on the long run but presently, you want some reprieve and it is not coming. And it will be like that for a while, there is no magic.
Implementing the subsidy removal is one decision that inflicted more pains on Nigerians. Do you think Tinubu took the right step this time? The argument is that the palliatives should have come before the announcing the new economic policy.
You make errors sometimes but if he did not do it at that time, it will never be done. The politicians would have given him reasons not to do it. The only thing I faulted is he should have made preparation before. That is why I admire Papa Obafemi Awolowo, the way they operated in the Action Group (AG). I have not seen anything near it. They prepare, once they are in government, they hit the ground running, they have made plans, they keep implementing the plans, they have even anticipated the problems and determine how to tackle them. With the way our political system is structured, we are so concerned about winning elections and forget how to do certain things. The president’s preparation was too much about how to win the election, which is a big job on its own. But what about the preparation on how you are going to administer when you get there particularly considering the situation you’re meeting on ground. I don’t think that they did that planning on if you encounter certain problem, this is how to deal with it.
Considering our socioeconomic realities, is there light at the end at the end of the tunnel
Definitely, there is light but what I’m afraid of is that we have gone so deep that coming back up is difficult. When I see the projections in terms of growth rate. They predicted four percent, now it’s reduced to about three percent but it is when we get to seven percent that the country will begin to feel it. But at three percent, when our population is growing at the rate of 2.5 percent, you’re not making necessary impact. We have a big population but the purchasing power of the people is not good.
What should the government do to address inflation?
I would have loved very minimal or no importation. The only thing we should import is if we want to repair our machinery or get raw material that is totally necessary. Otherwise, everything should be locally made. Government has a high purchasing power. So, everything they purchase should be locally made. You will see a drastic change. Let government show the example, everybody will follow. I always point out to what Chief Olusegun Obasanjo did as military president when he started using Peugeot 504, every government vehicle was 504. He was also wearing Adire, homemade textile and that was what everybody was using. I wished he did same when he came back as civilian but he jettisoned those gains. Those things are important, make people want to emulate the leader. But, if people start to show off, using SUV, everybody wants to use SUV, and these are important vehicles.
Is our problem endemic such that no matter the kind of ruler, the issues plaguing the nation for decades will continue?
That has occurred to me a number of times. But the way I rationalize it is if you see a situation, big problems staring you in the face, you ask if you’re ready to do what will deal with the problems but it will take all your time, even your family will suffer, even 24 hours will not be enough to do the job. The option is I’m president, I’m governor, everybody looks up to me, and say you’ll only do the little you can,
enjoy the offerings of the office; you’re doing things not the way people want, you’re not exerting yourself. These are the two options. As human beings, there’s the tendency to go the easy way, and a lot of our leaders take the easy way. If you take the hard way, you’ll accomplish things but you have to deprive yourself of many things, no time for gallivanting, frolicking. There is too much to be done, it is frightening, sometimes you ask where do you start from. But, you’ll make a lot of difference if determined.
Let’s talk about our electoral process; the parlance for anyone who feels aggrieved is, ‘Go to Court.’ Do you worry that rather than electoral victories being decided at the polls, several are now being decided by the courts?
That is the law. The law says if you’re dissatisfied, go to court. The only aspect I don’t like is that technicalities are used to decide cases. I like strictly the figures and that is what happened in the case of my dad. They used voting figures and he won at the court. These days, they rely more on technicalities. Someone’s deputy does not have certificate and you disqualify a governor. Ordinarily, I would say get another deputy who has certificate. What about the one in Kano where you say the ballot paper was not signed. Is the voter going to be looking to know if the ballot paper is signed or not. He has voted. If you can prove that the ballot paper is not fake, why say the issue is that it was not signed. That’s technicality that can be used. That is why I say our values have changed. We need people who are honest to do things. The way to minimise the human aspect is to computerise the system such that it is not easy for a person to manipulate. That is the only way. If we pay more attention to that, it is more believable. I am also bothered about the high level of corruption. It is systemic as people feel there is nothing anybody will do about it. From bottom to top, everybody is involved. They say if you’re not involved now, wait for your turn, or if you do something, take care of everybody so that nobody will complain. I don’t know how we can get away from there. That halts the country a lot.
People have mentioned solutions to our problems that have not been implemented like the 2014 Confab report, El-Rufai recommendations on restructuring, the Uwais panel report. Why is it difficult to implement what some have referred to as solutions to our problems?
I don’t know why it is so difficult. Any day, I want the country to be restructured because I believe it is restructured, we will do a lot better.
Do we need to have a new conference?
I don’t believe we need to have a new conference. We need to gather all the things that have been said in the past. Former President Muhammadu Buhari criticized the composition of persons for the Confab saying they were not democratically elected. But they did a report that is useful. The report I like the most is the El-Rufai committee report, by the APC itself. We said we want to restructure, we put out a committee to look at it and they came out with a report. They may subject some parts of the report to the people. I like that report. Let’s start from there because this is by the party in government. I believe sooner than later, President Tinubu will do something about the report because he believes in restructuring. He was one of the governors we looked up to when he was governor of Lagos. The federal government was encroaching on the state’s rights, coastal lines and he fought them to a standstill. Now he is on the seat and has a report of his party, let’s start from there and implement it.
You mentioned former President Olusegun Obasanjo, he recently said the Western liberal democracy practiced in Nigeria is not effective and called on African countries to evolve their own peculiar kind of democracy. Is the democracy we are practicing the bane of our problems?
Yes and No. Yes, to the extent that we don’t have the same value system like the Western world. We have a mindset that is different from theirs. Over there, it is easy for them to, if not happy or vehemently opposed to something, resign as there is always another somewhere else. But here, if you leave a space and don’t have any other place to go, what happens? Will you want to go and suffer? We are too subservient to authority so whatever the authority says, we just accept. Whereas abroad, you can fight against the authority and still survive. But here, to fight the authority, the authority can wreck you totally. People can leave a job and get something else but here, when the jobs are not even there so you hold tightly to the one you get. In the North, you bribe a whole household as several are not educated. Once the village head asks them to vote a certain candidate, they all do it. In the South, people are educated so such tendency is lower. So, we have to have more people like that. We may have to look at Nigeria from the prism of what we had before, the way we operated. In Yoruba land, we have Obas who are rulers and they are supposed to be honest, fair in the treatment of their subjects, though there are some who are like tyrants. Even when they become tyrants, people have a way to get rid of them. Sometimes, the traditional way may be better than what we have because someone who is trained to rule from birth, as Obaship is hereditary. This is different from just sending someone to the House of Representatives, he doesn’t have requisite training. The person trained to rule will do better. So, we should try looking at that and look at education. People have to have education to be able to vote, ascertain the situation not vote without knowing what they are voting for.
You and your family can be associated with the NADECO struggle, especially the fight to push away military rule and have civilian rule. Looking at what we have today, was the fight, struggle worth it?
It worths it, because you have to compare civilian with military rule. Under military rule, you can be arrested and thrown into jail anyhow, whether right or wrong. Under civilian rule, at least, people will shout, some will come to your defence, you can go to court and argue your case. In military rule, it is dictatorship. But our progress has not been as fast as we wanted. If there is no break, and we keep going like this, we will be getting better. Like Wole Soyinka said, my generation is a wasted generation. We had opportunity to do much better but we didn’t. It is unfortunate, we should have done much better. The area I blame the military is they came in too fast, they could have allowed us to make our mistakes and move on; by the time they came in, they messed us up totally. There is a lot you gain from experience; experience is vital in governance. You bring people who have not had experience, saying new breed and push away people saying they are too old. The Ibrahim Badamosi Babangida era brought in new breed but he found out the new breed never lasted; but he has experimented with us for nothing. If those people were on, we would have mastered the situation but that military interregnum was really bad. They did a lot of things in terms of infrastructure but they also neglected a lot of things. I believe we will get there some day but not in my time.
What is your impression of leaders, their ideals and governance today compared to those of your dad’s days? Are Nigerian leaders the same through decades?
There are a lot of differences. There are so many things that have changed both in the leaders and followers. The way I was brought up is different from what I see now. Even my kids behave differently from the way I will normally behave. Everything is different in the society. Because politics is prominent, it is something we all see and we see that they don’t behave certain way. I don’t know if it is the egg that comes first or the chicken. Is it because they don’t behave well that the society has fallen apart or because the society has fallen apart, they are behaving the way they are behaving. It is very sad. When I was interested in politics, it was about service. I thought of nothing else other than service. I wasn’t ambitious. If I felt someone was able to do a thing better, I willingly let him go. I don’t feel it should be me. My ambition is always subordinate to the performance in the society. These days either you can perform or not, you just want to be there. People are not providing selfless service anymore, they look at what they can grab from a place. That is disheartening. This is because of the change in values. Our value system has changed considerably. We used to have Omoluabi but there are very few Omoluabis now. And that is affecting us. Anything that affects the Yoruba affects the country. If there is a dearth of Omoluabis among Yoruba, you can be sure that the country will be affected. The moment Yoruba can move, the whole country can move.
President Bola Tinubu had presented the 2025 budget. Could that document bring about the needed turnaround in the nation’s fortunes?
My concern is the high rate of debt servicing. We keep borrowing. Once you start to borrow, you have a problem because your creditors want to control things. If you’re short of foreign exchange and you go to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), IMF will now station in the Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN) and you can’t complain because you’re borrowing from them.
People draw differences between the Akeredolu situation and that of late President Umar Yar’Adua. Akeredolu, as President, Nigeria Bar Association (NBA), asked the then ailing President Yar’Adua to do the needful. Isn’t it high time Akeredolu also did the needful?
I see the quotations everywhere. The statement was okay but that is if the person who is sick is even able to comprehend the situation. If he is sick to the extent that he can’t comprehend the situation, he can’t resign. I don’t know his situation but Yar’Adua was in coma. I hope our governor’s case is not like that; that is only when you can compare with the Yar’Adua situation. I know Akeredolu, if he is feeling well enough, he will say something, he will write. That is why I don’t understand why the situation is shrouded in secrecy.
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