We won’t engage in media trial — Abdulsalam Member CCB

Rt. Hon Taofik Olawale Abdulsalam was a Speaker of the Ondo state House of Assembly. He is now a member of the Code of Conduct Bureau. In this interview with YINKA OLADOYINBO, he speaks on the efforts of the bureau at fighting corruption, some of the challenges facing the organisation and the performance of government generally. Excerpts

How would you describe the performance of the Code of Conduct Bureau vis-a-vis the reasons for its establishment?

As a way to set goal for that organization unfortunately years passed the organization has been starved of funds and  we have not been able to achieve the shared target for the organization. We have had so many chairmen, board members all trying to make their impact. Recently we have a very young man as the new chairman who has set a goal for himself and all of us have set that goal together that the code of conduct at the forefront of the anti-corruption organizations in Nigeria, should be at the top. It’ll surprise you that the two other organizations (ICPC) and (EFCC) can’t do much without coming to the code of conduct to get information in any of their  investigative activities. But to put it rightly, code of conduct has not lived up it’s maximum potential due to funding and the training of staffs, that is the major obstacle we are facing presently. We have met the president and he has assured us that things will be better and we  have seen one or two things that made us agreed that it will be better. For the first time, this year budget was different from other years because we were able to get like N5 billion in our budget and approval was given to us to have a new building, while the budget for the building was like N12 billion, which we are trying to we’re trying to sought out the design of the building, we have one already but we are trying to look at it, probably it would be a modern one maybe it can be better than what we have on ground that is where we are presently. Frankly to put it rightly we have not been able to arrive at the peak of what we’re suppose to be but we are working towards that.

The code of conduct bureau is the foremost anti corruption agency we have in Nigeria now. It was established before the EFCC and ICPC, don’t you think there’s need for us to bring everything together under one umbrella, will you subscribe to that suggestion?

Well I will say yes and no, in the sense that in most countries we don’t have one anti-corruption agency and where we have one the management has always been at its best. In Nigeria we like duplicating matters, for example code of conduct was created mainly for civil and public servants, politicians in our country and appointees of federal government while EFCC is basically for both private and public servants and any other person, so it is not limited. But Code of Conduct is limited to public servants and what it was created for is for everyone to live within their limit, not to encourage corruption within the system and that’s why at the beginning of every four years or at the beginning of your assumption of office as a civil servant you are supposed to declare your asset and you will be doing that every four years. The Code of Conduct bureau is not saying you should not have asset but you should be able to explain this asset and how you got your asset, so that you’ll be able to explain that you are not living above your means, but other agencies have their own functions as stated in the act that established them. It is only Code of Conduct that we have in the constitution, under the 1999 constitution we have Code of Conduct and the functions and duties are stated in there, the other two were established by Acts of Parliament. I think it can be done if you have a strong anti-corruption agency in Nigeria either by combining the three or either by giving them separate functions to perform and it is only code of conduct that has a tribunal, after our investigation and everything we can take it to tribunal and the rules of tribunal is different from the general rules of the court and that has been something that has been helping the organization but we don’t make noise on what we are doing and of recent we have been working mostly under coca, that’s the company of crime, where if you are caught after the investigation and they’ve confirmed how you acquired it is beyond your limit, you can now repost this to the federal government which is making the crime unit and anti corruption better than what it was. Both EFCC and ICPC are also doing this, as a public servant you have a large amount of money in your account and you cannot explain the reason why you have such money in your account we will definitely notify the federal government. So mostly in the last few months all the anti corruption agencies have been doing that, ensuring that system operates without making noise to the public, I think we’re working on something where some of the NGOs are saying that the three of, because we don’t only have three anti corruption agencies, we have so many but the most known ones are those four EFCC, ICPC, Code OF Conduct, NSFIU We have other regulations agencies that are also fighting corruption but the major ones that are known are the ones I just mentioned, so if there can be anything that can be done by the government to make sure that all this can come together I think it can be better for the country.

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Despite the duplication of anti-corruption agencies and the corruption in Nigeria is still striving among politicians and civil servants what do you think is responsible for this and how do you think we can move out of this situation?

It is a very sad thing when you see what people are doing and what Nigerians are doing generally, people are trying to circumvent the law in various ways, people using different means and there are a lot of people who are ready to encourage them, so it is going to be a difficult thing if we do not try and make the public to be aware of what is happening at present because it is not only happening in Abuja, it is happening in Lagos, Kaduna, Port-Harcourt, it is happening everywhere. Where people siphoned public funds either through cash or transfer or through money laundering and they try to bring this money back if it is taking it outside Nigeria and the next thing is to engage in estate management and allow people to be laundering money on their behalf and we’ve a lot of them in Abuja, Lagos. A lot of estates, but presently now if you go round Abuja and Lagos, you will see a lot of these estates abandoned and that is why I said that most of the anti corruption agencies are not making noise; they’re going after those people once they identify the owner you’ll be invited to come and explain yourself but our own is not like that because you might find out that the owner of that estate might not be a public servant so we stand in for EFCC to go after them, so that was how EFCC was able to identify that of the former CBN governor, because after calling the person that was in charge of the estate and he was not able to explain how those money were being channeled that was when he exposed the identity of the owner. So we have a lot of them and I’m sure the anti corruption agencies are working together to make sure that most of these things are reduced and I’m sure in the next few years there will be sanity in our estate development.

Declaration of asset has become a normal ritual with no consequences to people that run foul of the regulations, what efforts are you making to ensure that people with devious act are exposed or are caught?

We are doing a lot, for example we have had meetings with the Head of Service and we have had a meeting with all heads of service of all states. What we are proposing is that if you are a civil servant you are supposed to be filling your form every four years, if you don’t do it before your next promotion, you will have to show a copy of your form if you do not have it there’s no promotion for you, that is one. Two what we are doing now is enlightenment, right now you can go online to download our forms,  before now you can only come to the office of civil servants to fill your form but presently now you can go online to download our form and fill it and do the necessary things you are supposed to do take it to court let it be signed by the judge then bring to our office with in. But what we’re doing now is to sensitise our people and say this are things you need to be doing either you’re a military, police, or paramilitary, if you do not have a copy of our form your promotion will be rejected and as regard to the public servant like politicians or state governments or federal government appointees what we normally do is that when you are appointed before you assume office we will send a letter to the person appointing you or directly to you that things you need to do before you assume your office and if you refuse to do it within three months you will be invited and taken to tribunal once it’s confirmed you’ve not done it, most people are being taken to tribunal but the result has not been out. The chairman of tribunal was just appointed three months ago, so he has a lot to do and we are working together to make sure that people are being brought to justice immediately a violation of that law is established. The most important thing is we want people to comply with the provision of the law that said you must obtain our form and fill our form and declare your asset. But presently the Head of Service of  the federation is in line with the Heads of service in the 36 states telling them what the federal government is doing and what the state governments are doing too and making sure that for you to be promoted you must present a copy of your asset declaration that you’re supposed to be doing every four years. So in-between if there is a promotion and you can go through your promotion exam but a letter will be coming out to inform you that you have not done a copy of your asset declaration form the same thing to public offices, when you are entering before you assume your seat, if you are a commissioner or you are going to the house of assembly or national assembly you must show a copy of your form and if you’ve been appointed by the federal or state government before you go to the National assembly for confirmation you must show an acknowledged copy of your code of conduct form and that is what we are working on now.

Before now we have had celebrated cases by the Code of Conduct tribunal but with the silence we have now people will think that your bureau and tribunal are not up and doing.

What we are trying to avoid is media trial in our own office, but what we will be doing with this chairman and board members is a quarterly press conference to let the people of Nigeria know that this is how far we have gone in this and we will mention few cases and what we have achieved within those three months, I’m sure by ending of September or October we will have our first press conference to let people know that this is how far we have gone and like I said the tribunal has been in crisis for the past few months and the matter has just been resolved at national assembly, the new chairman has been sworn in and I’m sure very soon people will be hearing about what they’re doing, relating to matters of before us and people that fail to comply to the provision of code of conduct has provided in the constitution. So very soon people will be hearing a lot of noise about us, positively so that people will know we are really working.

There has been noise towards 2027 and we have been having alliance from different places and with the complain that people are having about the performance of your government presently now at the national level, don’t you think this is a threat to the election of president Bola Tinubu for 2027?

Presently I am on sabbatical from politics but I am a Nigerian. The problem we have is always concentrating everything at the center, nobody wants to talk about governors and the local governments. The federal government is trying there best, but how far with the state governors people are not ready to ask their government questions, nobody wants to talk about the performance of the local government council. With due respect to other states, I think it’s only Lagos that there council chairmen are doing so few things, construction of road, health center and all that. But when we get to other states and local government are not doing anything and we even heard that at the end of every month and FAAC the chairmen are given stipends by their governors and nobody is talking the lawyers, the critics, the people that said that the government is not working and they are not asking this question, they are not talking to them, none of the will talk to them, but it’s only federal government they talk about. The truth of the matter is that things are bad generally, nobody is shying away from that, but when you look deep down the economy reform of this government you would know that something would’ve been done, the president just came down from Brazil and Japan, and we know a lot that will be coming through those two countries in terms of agriculture industrialization, we know the tax reform that everybody is talking about, he’s not going to be a day thing of one year thing it’s going to be years. How many governors are investing in agriculture in this country, none of them is investing in agriculture, there was a time federal government subsidized fertilizer and you will be surprised that no government from the southern part of the country most governors  in the North took advantage of it for their farmers. So is everything federal government, federal government when you try to analyze it to some people they don’t want to listen just federal government and it’s always like that when you’ve a father who doesn’t like one of his sons or daughters there is nothing anybody can do. People just have this mind set that this man must go and they are not providing alternative, I was in NBA conference and somebody was saying that the reforms are good but not implemented in the right way, okay what are the right way? the person couldn’t provide any solution and that is one of the most critics of this government. Some people were asking that person that you couldn’t manage your party the next thing he said is the federal government that is destroying the party was that the question the people asked, so a lot of Nigerian want to criticize and they want to be popular by criticizing the government of today and have friends in the media and continued to criticize the government of the day, we have people who want to talk but ask them what are the solutions they have, with the little understanding I have about this country, a lot is being done in various sectors and I am sure things will be better. Now ASUU is threatening that they want to go on strike, the government is talking to them but it’s not like that before for the past few years. ASUU has not gone on strike but because people are saying ASUU has not gone on strike that gave them the liberty to say yes we want to go on strike and the NLC, every three months they want to go on strike for nothing. A lot of people just want to criticize this government, ask them for a solution they have non, but as far as I’m concerned this present government is trying and I believe that given the necessary support the government will do more. This man was governor of Lagos, see what is happening in Lagos there is a programme in Lagos state and all the governors are following that programme that’s why Lagos is running the best. However, in other states one governor spends eight years another one coming after him  brings his own system the, next one will do the same that is why no state can be like Lagos in term of infrastructural development because we have a working system. If we have a president that is setting a structure and we have another president coming after him following that the country could have been better than what we have here. Obasanjo said we should libralise the petroleum industry, the next government said we are not going to do that, the next person too, there’s no follow up to the economic plan of this country and I’m sure with eight years of president Bola Ahmed Tinubu Nigeria will be better than before, you’ll not know it now but let him leave office you’ll know that this man has tried.

As someone from Ondo state, how will you describe the happening in your state, what is your impression about governance in the state presently?

As far as I’m concerned the governor is trying to put one or two things in place in other to make the state better and I believe he can do more with the support he is getting from everybody in the next four years he should be able to leave the state better than he met it