Barrister Mutalib Adebayo Ojo, SAN served as Attorney-General and Commissioner for Justice in Oyo State under the administration of Senator Abiola Ajimobi. He is an outspoken member of the ruling All Progressives Congress (APC), and community leader. In this interview with Taiwo Adisa, he insists that the governorship seat in Oyo State must shift to other zones in 2027. He also addresses the spate of defections by politicians to the APC and declares that President Bola Tinubu must leave enduring legacies, if he must attain the position of reverence being accorded to the late Sage, Chief Obafemi Awolowo by the Yoruba. Excerpts:
The spate of defections we are witnessing in the country right now is alarming. What does this portend for the democracy that we are practicing?
To me, there’s no big deal about it. It is not new. Politicians, political party members have always been crossing from one party to the other. In fact, if there is no room or chance for defection, that is what I will complain about. Because it means that if you are being frustrated in your marriage and they are saying you cannot divorce your husband or you cannot divorce your spouse, it may lead to death or loss of life of either of the spouse. So, in politics you have freedom of entry and exit. And again, we must bear it in mind that the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria which is the ground norm makes provisions for freedom of assembly and freedom of association. Yes, I should be able to move and go out whenever I like. Even like a migration. Like the talk about “Jappa.” Migration is a right under our law, and it must not be restricted.
But then, what is the place in ideology in all these?
Which party in Nigeria has ideology. None of them. There is no ideology.
So, how do we build parties with ideology?
You see (General Ibrahim) Babangida tried that under the SDP, NRC where we had a little to the right and a little to the left party, which were state created, which is wrong, because states should not create parties because people should freely join their choice of political party. As of today, that I know, we have 18 political parties registered. So, there is no threat of one-party state in Nigeria. We have other parties which have not been outlawed. In a one-party state, it is either you leave politics, or you join compulsorily the only party. But like I said recently, the intelligence available to me indicates that Adebayo Adelabu is the next governor of Oyo State, regardless of the number of parties. I said that the powers that have anointed Adelabu, and that is why I said except Allah decides otherwise. And I won’t want to expatiate on that.
Well, whatever the endorsement you talked about has to content with the voters because the people would decide?
The people will decide but you see, but the president is getting popular by the day. Look at the governors and others drifting to his party, despite the excruciating economic situation of the country; all the governors, even the masses, everybody is embracing him. Because people are now seeing sense in his policy. Because even when the other people were there, they knew that the subsidy had to be removed. The Buhari government had collected money upfront but I’m telling you and I warned those who are APC members who are interested in Oyo State governorship, I said, don’t waste your money, Adelabu is your governor.
How, there are other factors, the people, the incumbent governor…
I don’t want to talk about the governor. You know I can’t even say whether the governor is APC or PDP. Or he’s APCPDP. Believe me. But the people still have the final say if our votes will count. And I pray our votes count. But I said, if Adelabu is the only candidate, and they are saying yes or no vote, I will vote. No. I’ll pick no. So, if he has 99 per cent, the remaining point one, let everybody know that it is my vote. That I will vote against him.
Why is that, but you are saying he has been endorsed?
It’s my right to vote no. I have the right to vote either rightly or wrongly, responsibly, or irresponsibly. It’s my right. It may be for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all. That’s democracy. I can’t vote for him. I won’t vote for him.
Some observers would say that the person you said has been endorsed as the next governor of Oyo State has overseen the Power Ministry in the last two years, yet, Ibadan, Oyo State, and the entire Nigeria remain in darkness…
I won’t comment on that. I can tell you that whether there is power. There is light. There is no light. In my house, there will always be light. Because I have made provisions for alternatives.
So why are you canvassing his candidature?
I just told you; it is personal. In the last election, I supported Teslim Folarin. And I don’t vote on party basis. Hon Abbas Adigun Agboworin, who is my Rep member in the South-East North-East, contested against my party member, I voted for him. I voted against Dapo Lam, our own candidate, I voted for PDP. So that’s just it. And believe me, from 1999 till date, all the Rep members representing our constituency, if you put their records together, they cannot match the record of Agboworin. I was in the constituency recently and this gentleman, has covered the entire constituency with streetlights, and because he’s a member of the House Committee on FERMA, he is now reconstructing the roads. He has constructed several schools and established coaching centres, extra-mural centres, and he paid for teachers. He obtained WAEC forms, JAMB forms for our people, free of charge, and engaged teachers to be teaching them. He has also constructed several boreholes. So, what else do I need? What can anybody do, more than that? So, my people are feeling his impact, and I am supporting him.
Still on the matter of Oyo State, there is also this issue of zoning or call it powershift, that is propping up, do you think that would play a role in determining the next governor?
I am an advocate of power shift. In fact, it is one of the reasons why I said I will not vote Adelabu. For God’s sake, from May 1999, we started with Lam Adesina. We moved to Rashidi Adedoja, Alao-Akala got there by default when Ladoja Adedoja was impeached for a eleven months. Then after that one, Ajimobi came in, he spent eight years, Ajimobi left now we have, Governor Seyi Makinde, who is doing eight years. Other zones are not slaves. They are not inferior to us. Are we superior to them? No. So, believe me, power must shift power, power must leave Ibadan in 2027.
But can there be a consensus on that, among the political parties?
In some states, they are doing zoning, and for many other positions, they are doing zoning. In Ibarapa, Ido, and Ibarapa East, If it’s the turn of Ido, this time around, next time, it’s the turn of Ibarapa East, that’s for the House of Representatives seat. In Ona-Ara and Egbeda, they are doing zoning. In Akinyele, they are zoning the Reps seat, even in Iseyin, they are doing zoning. So why can’t we do the same for governorship?
You met with President Bola Tinubu recently, it means you are a staunch supporter of his. Two years in power, how would you rate his governance?
Yes, I supported and canvassed votes for him. I mobilised voters and I campaigned heavily for President Tinubu, especially on social media. I believe that of the three candidates, he was the best. The first was Peter Obi, he was governor of Anambra State for eight years. He had no record of performance. People have challenged him. Then there is Alhaji Atiku Abubakar. He was vice president to President Olusegun Obasanjo for eight years. What did he do? He and his president were fighting, something that was messy, dirty, and too rough. It was a house of commotion. And I read Obasanjo’s book, how he described, Atiku, he has not been able to sue him for defamation of character till today. Why would I vote for such a person? Whereas Governor Tinubu was in the Lagos. He performed well as governor of Lagos State. He fixed the Bar Beach and opened the Lekki axis and many roads. He brought the IPP, but was it was frustrated. Then he used court, and advocacy to challenge many unconstitutional acts and policies of former President Olusegun Obasanjo.
But going into governance in Abuja, a lot of people blamed the president for declaring ‘subsidy is gone’ without taking hold of documents of the government…?
Yes, people say he made the pronouncement in a hurry. But he only pronounced the subsidy must go. Even if he did not say it, subsidy has been stopped by the Buhari government. People are now just calling dog a bad name to hang it. But truly, the subsidy must go. It has to go.
But government policies are supposed to be measured, no wonder that statement has continued to trouble the economic waters…
Yes, I agree. In this country today, things are bad for people. Prices of food items have gone up. I go to markets myself.
And the statistics also say inflation is skyrocketing?
Well, I don’t believe in the statistics. I have my own. Let me tell you, I love to eat bread, and I know the price of bread before the government came. Coke. How much was it? Pure water. The Cway refill water, was N450, before but today, it is N1.600. So, it’s not easy. The figures are there. When Tinubu came in, a bag of rive was N27,000. Do you know the price now? It is N85,000, the one that is not good enough is N75,000. How many people can afford that. Look at the prices of all the cable TVs, all of them have all gone up. So, things are that bad, even school fees, I pay school fees now, things are bad, transport fares it is more than doubled. So that things are not easy in this country, there is pain, there is hunger.
And the government is supposed to alleviate that burden…
But the government said it will change. I am ready to have hope in them and to believe that things will change but I beg them that they should be sincere with us. It is that sincerity that I’m not comfortable with. If they are sincere, if they are honest, and if they are God-fearing, and if they are for people, they will do well.
I am worried that you are saying this when two years are already gone out of a four-year tenure…
But we must applaud some of the government’s policies. And some few people, very few, are now embracing what we call CNG. It is cheap, which is good. Yes, one government has given us a rail line from Lagos to Ibadan. Let this government take it to Ilorin, even Sokoto and fix the roads. Let them start from dualizing the road from Iwo Road Osogbo, take it to Ilorin, Lokoja, to Abeokuta, Open the other zones too.
It’s like you are canvassing trans-national highways across the zones of the country.
Yes, we need to open up other roads.
But they are doing the Lagos- Calabar highway and they said they have started Sokoto – Badagry expressway?
No, those are not roads that link major cities. For example, look at Lagos-Ibadan expressway, smooth road. Let me be able to go to Ilorin under one hour, let me be able to go to Osogbo from Ibadan, under one hour, let me drive with ease. Then use train, rail lines, to also connect cities. That’s what they do abroad. So that you don’t have to move your car around. All you need to do is when you get to the station, you take taxi. And off you go. Or somebody who has come to the station to pick you up. And that was what we grew up to know in Dugbe train station.
Insecurity is still a challenge for the APC government, yet this is one issue they criticised the Jonathan government for, while the party was in opposition. What really can the government do now?
You see, when these government came in, they faced, banditry, and this Boko Haram, those terrorists, headlong, unlike President Buhari who was treating them with kid gloves. President Tinubu confronted them that we felt they were technically dead. But now, they are now rearing their headsagain. So, government needs to be proactive about it. But now, it’s not a business for Federal Government alone to do. State governments too should be proactive. Because the banditry or terrorism is not operating at the international level. It’s at the state level and local government level. So that’s what they should do. They should be more serious or do more than what they are doing today.
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Do you subscribe to the claim that there is an international conspiracy pushing the insurgency to stall Nigeria’s development?
Yes.
So, why is the military not frontally dealing with the situation, especially if there is an international conspiracy against us?
During president Goodluck Jonathan, when he was not getting aid and arms from those, we thought were our international friends, you know what they did? They went under cover to get arms with a jet that belonged to Pastor Oritsejafor, they went to the black market in South Africa, before it was intercepted. To me, I believe that we must tackle the challenge of insecurity from the local levels. We also need to have the South-West Development Agency that must cater to needs of the zone and the same for other regions of the country.
Now that President Tinubu’s party, the APC is winning almost everybody into his fold, is the 2027 election a fait accompli?
He is going to be re-elected as president in 2027. In fact, some governors will not decamp from their parties, but they will work for him. I know a number of them, but for the sake of confidentiality, I won’t mention names but a lot of them are working for him.
But with the economy that is not doing well for the people, will the people follow the drift of the politicians?
The economy is good enough for the governors.
The governors are not the voters.
Yes, and they are enjoying it. And I know, Asiwaju being who he is, he will use one of those governors to reach out to other governors.
I am talking about the people who have the votes becausethe governors are thirty-six…
The people have the votes while the governors have the money, they control the purse and again they have the backing of the powers that be. So that means we should continue to address him on doing well for the people. I agree, he needs to be advised and guided, by those that are close to him. You see, Tinubu for me, he is already a great man. Like Chief Obafemi Awolowo, his name is already on the lips of many people. But remember that Awo did not rule Nigeria. He ruled the South-West and Bendel, which is today’s Edo and Delta. Though Awo did not become the President of this country but today, Awo remains the most popular of the Yorubas who have been in government. Awo did not win more than South-West, Tinubu has won more than South-West before and now he has become the president. But how many people will remember him when he leaves? How many people would like to elevate him? Even when he leaves the government, even if not for what they are getting from him now? How many years was Chief Awolowo Premier of Western Nigeria? Eight years. But his legacies are there till tomorrow, free education, we attribute it to Awolowo. Free health, the secretariat in Ibadan, the Cocoa House, even some of these Odua Investment companies. What I am saying is that unless Tinubu leaves Legacies that would subsist, he would be forgotten like Mandela.
and then