Chief Funmi Odusolu is a traditionalist and playwright who has created several contents and indoor games from Ifa, the Bible and the Quran. He speaks with MOSES ALAO and OLAMIDE ENIOLA on the need to restructure the country and what the country’s leaders must do urgently to steer the ship of the nation in the right direction.
You are a playwright and an artist, and it is often said that art has a curative power to correct the society. Artistes and playwrights like Haruna Isola, Hubert Ogunde and Professor Wole Soyinka tried to correct the ills in the society with their lyrics and works. But looking at the way Nigeria is today; would you say that artists and literary figures or the power of art has failed Nigerians?
No, it isn’t that. You mentioned particular geniuses. Isola was a genius, Ogunde was a genius. These days, I’m not sure that most of the younger artistes involve themselves with the art enough to evoke the genius in them because art itself is a work of genius. When you don’t serve it right, you don’t get to use the genius of art, you don’t get the genius of art in you brought out. That, I think, is the basic difference. Those days, people served the art, saw the vison of an artist and knew they had to do what the art told them to do. But today, money is the utmost.
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So you are saying that money derailed your vision of an artist to correct the society?
Well, I won’t say my vision, I’ll say the vision of those who do not serve the vision of the art. Or will you say money derailed the vision of Fela Anikulapo, for instance? He made money, but he was a genius and his works still talk to us from the bottom of his own genius.
Look at the Nigerian society and you’ll see a lot of ills, things that were not there many years ago. As an artist, knowing that art has a curative power, what has gone wrong? Why can’t art correct our ills in the Nigerian society again?
The artist will do what he can to correct the society, but it is left to the society to listen to what the artist is saying. Shakespeare wrote in his time; I am not sure he corrected with the use of words his society. He took the mirror and reflected society. Society saw its ills. If society then thought it right to learn from what Shakespeare showed in the mirror, then it was left to the society. The same thing Fela did. And what he said then are still relevant to the society today. I am a traditionalist. Talking about my particular art, I drive all my paintings, poems, indoor games (I have a number of them, about 63 different games), all based on Ifa and Orisa. And you cannot say that Ifa and Orisa don’t talk about society. Every word, every fibre of Ifa and Orisa is society in the three dimensions of past, present and future. That is what Ifa and Orisa tell us about, not just society, about man and God. Ori, for instance, which I did for Lagos State was a command performance by the Lagos State to honour the present president of Nigeria, Muhammadu Buhari, who was then General Buhari. Ori traced the history of Lagos and with it, incident in Nigeria.
What Ori is saying, I think, is still relevant till today, that we should not neglect our own god-head as a people and carry around the god-head of other people, which we are doing. To that extent, my art has not neglected society, but it is not up to me to say that you must listen to me. If they see what I’m saying, fine. But for them, it is just too bad. In 1988, the Ogun State government also invited me to put up a command performance for the successor to Buhari, [Ibrahim Badamasi] Babangida. I did the play Suuru Baba Iwa, which was also a command performance. Babangida, I would say, was so enamoured of the play that if Ogun State had this much quality, it deserved to have a cultural centre. And he announced and the play was staged on the 10th of November, 1998. On the 11th of November, there was a state banquet in his honour. And he announced at the meeting the establishment of a cultural centre, now June 12 Cultural Centre, because of his appraisal of my work, Suuru Baba Iwa. So, in those two respects, you can see what art does for the society.
It’s always very common for people like you who have been around when democracy was in practice before the military incursion and afterwards to often shift the blame to the military. Now, it’s close to 20 years since Nigeria returned to democracy, yet there is no sign of things changing. The country keeps talking about 1966, but now it has had 20 years of unbroken democracy.
You will say unbroken democracy, but it isn’t really democracy. We have two men in Khaki, except for Yar’Adua and Goodluck who rarely were continuing in the tradition of the military. Military instituted the federalism we are operating. Therefore, we couldn’t operate the democratically sane governance because the constitution is purely military as it was started in 1966. Therefore, we’ve had two men in khaki, Obasanjo and now Buhari. So, it’s still military, as far as I am concerned; we haven’t jettisoned it.
So you are saying that from 1999 till date, Nigerian has not practised democracy?
We haven’t practised democracy, no. We have practised a variant of military rule disguised by the toga of the civilian dressing.
If, according to the books, Nigeria has practised democracy for 20 years, and you are saying it’s a variant of military rule, and if the country goes into, say another 20 years of democracy, and this system is not changed, do you think there is hope?
It all depends on the people. Are the lives of people at stake? When the people see in themselves that their lives are at stake, there will be a change but if they don’t see it, they cannot change it. And perhaps it is difficult for them to see because they have been dehumanised by the so-called democracy, which is the military style of rule. And except people see that their minds and lives have been hijacked, they cannot think anymore as people in the U.S., Trinidad and Tobago and even some African countries where people still demand for their rights. But here, how many times in the past has this happened except through the NADECO years which was merely sit-at-home actions? The people have to be empowered enough in all ways psychologically and materially for them to demand this new lease of life. Except they demand and get it, there is no future for Nigeria.
Is there a way your traditional ideologies can liberate Nigerians? People listen to Fela without him forcing himself on them? Can we replicate same?
Look around and you don’t have to wait; you are bombarded by Christian and Islamic loud noises. Look at people in the churches, there are billionaires among them. Christian and Muslims have their own billionaires. The generality of the people ache and run away that there is salvation in heaven when they go through those two religions. Therefore, they invest all their whole lives in those two religions. How much woe does traditional religion have by this kind of all total devastation by these foreign religions? Next to the military rule, the two religions are a major setback for Nigeria. So you can’t ask people who don’t have any chance to say anything. In fact, the two religions curse traditional religion in their prayers and doings. Of course, there are a lot of solutions in view. I can’t remember the Odu that came, because the AG was warned by that time before 1960. Awo and the AG were warned not to accept to be part of Nigeria because it would favour the Hausa-Fulani. That was what Ifa said before 1960. And that if it was unavoidable, we should settle for just a part and not directly involved, what we will call a confederation. Somehow, the AG was not able to abide by what Ifa said at that time. And a few years into the democratic era, it was so as Ifa had predicted. Not too long after then, Awo was thrown in jail, but Ifa had warned them. So you see, Ifa’s word is always true, but do we listen to Ifa, even though Ifa has things to tell Nigerians. Will Nigerians listen? Look at the State Houses and Abuja, they all have churches and mosques. Is there anything for traditional religion? No. What is wrong going by what the constitution says that we are a multi-religious entity? Why are they sponsoring only the Christian and Islam religions? The society of Nigeria has been turned upside down because we have, as I said in Ori, failed to listen to Ifa; we are still paying the price. Will even the Yoruba nation listen to what Ifa has to say to them as an entity?
Now, what is Ifa saying about Nigeria’s situation? People are talking about restructuring, Boko Haram terrorism, Fulani herdsmen terrorism and a lot of ills? What is Ifa saying?
Of course, yes, except you consult Ifa specifically on particular issues, you can’t expect Ifa to talk in a vacuum.
Is it not possible that you consult Ifa for Nigerians?
No! The people concerned have to submit themselves.
If, for instance, President Muhammadu Buhari comes to you?
He will never come to Ifa! The people in Yoruba states should come in. The VP, for instance, if he is truly a Yoruba, should also go along that line.
But he is a pastor? Won’t it be diabolical for a pastor to consult Ifa?
It doesn’t matter, he’s Yoruba all the same. If this is the thing he should do for Nigeria, he should seek it. What! That’s strange! Pope John Paul went to Brazil and asked them to perform the rituals of the Orisa on him. That was Pope John Paul, the one before this one! And they showed it on TV. The things they gave for the rituals: they put the blood on him, and he allowed it. A whole Pope! So what’s a pastor? I think he should understand Olodumare better than that.
If really the situation of this nation gets to you and other Ifa worshippers, couldn’t you actually consult Ifa on behalf of Nigerians, especially because of millions of people who are suffering and will continue to suffer, and because of the unborn generation that may suffer more?
To what effect would it be if we did it privately? I am saying we must have a goal, a policy. Ifa sees and knows. I mean you don’t want to do anything you’ve not been asked to do by the concerned people. Ifa would tell you, ‘Tell them to come.’ Ifa would tell you what you need to know. But because they are the ones who are in need, they must come, and ask Ifa. Then Ifa knows they are honest. Otherwise, it’s all sham. If they refuse to come, too bad for them and Nigeria. People have to see what’s going on and develop the will power to need to change it. The need to change and not remain as fundamentalists who are unreasonable. This thing is hurting you and you said you won’t do it because it is not your religion. Well, we know the consequence already. It is up to the people. If they are really honest they must find a way out, let them try this thing.
Apart from coming to consult the oracle, what other things can Nigerians do? Many Yorubas have agitated for restructuring, where do you stand on this?
It is more than fundamental, because as I said, we have no constitution. What we have are a set of decrees brought in by the military which people who came in afterwards pretending to be democrats have used. Except we restructure, we cannot change that constitution. It’s the root of the whole issue.
Among the traditionalists, is there any effort to sensitise adherents, for instance, to vote out bad leadership, to get PVC, among others?
Good, if you vote out one leader, which constitution will the one that comes in use? The same constitution! You’ve done nothing! You’ve only changed a set of people to carry on the same set of nonsense. That’s what you’ve done.
So you’re saying without restructuring or change of constitution, 2019 is a wasted effort?
In fact, it may lead to the death of, if not the whole Nigeria, but of many Nigerians. Because by that time, the man there will not care who is alive. I am saying that if people vote, and they vote for someone like Sowore, who is somebody who has no chance at all in this dispensation, even if the Holy Spirit and Mohammed say, ‘Put all your votes together for Sowore,’ and they do, Sowore will only interpret this bad constitution. He will swear by it and implement it. So what is the change? It’s pointless voting at all under the present constitution because we are still going back to the same nonsense.
As a Yoruba person and Ifa worshipper, how does it make you feel when you compare the South-West with how it was in your younger days?
Everything is dead. We’re just walking corpses, so to say. That’s the way I look at it.
So what do you think is the way out for the Yoruba nation, particularly?
We have to be particular about the Yoruba nation because we are the most unprepared. The Hausas and Igbos are prepared for any eventuality. You know we have an Emir in Iwo; we have a Sarkin Fulani in Lagos. He may also become an Emir of Lagos by 2019, who knows? Why are we so such lackeys in the Yoruba world? Igbos don’t take all this nonsense. Why do we do that? Until we can correct that lackey nature that we have developed over time, our problems are unlimited. Yorubas have lackey nature which they have demonstrated through betrayals of all sorts.
But the Yorubas seem to be playing central politics now.
No, it’s not that it is playing central politics; all the Yoruba states are APC on paper. Do they influence anything in terms of what the national government does? They have no clout when it comes to what the national government does. Now that you are in the mainstream, what have you enjoyed? I think that those who are in the APC, who don’t want to be in the opposition, are doing so to protect their own loot, sincerely. Because if they don’t dance to the tune of the central government, they could play politics with their loot. That, I think, is the main reason Yorubas are playing the game with the national government, not for the wellness of the survival of Nigerians in the South-West. No! But personal gain of the looters.
What do you think is the way forward?
I said it before; we, the people, have to take our destinies in our own hands. We have to talk to our leaders. For instance, our leaders recruit and use our people, poor people, as militia men. Why do our people serve in those disgraceful capacities? We cannot fight because there will be compromised by these same leaders who buy them over. So we cannot fight because we’ve been told by our leaders to kill one another. We have to talk to our leaders that this cannot continue. Using us to kill ourselves cannot continue. May be we’ll find a way out.
You talked about Ori and Suuru Baba Iwa, what recent works of arts have you done?
Not outside in terms of production, I’ve been writing all the time, and creating indoor games and my paintings because I saw that the community has been polluted. And except you do the kind of stuff that will get money from MTN and all the rest, cheap things you see them all over the place, I don’t have flare for them. So I look away elsewhere to bring out my art.
So you bring out your art without selling to the outside world?
No, I haven’t because who will pay for something that tasks the audience? Most of my plays task the audience.
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