If you destroy PDP, you have destroyed Nigeria —Sule Lamido

Former minister and ex-governor of Jigawa State, Alhaji Sule Lamido, is among prominent politicians that formed the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) in 1998. He bares his mind to KUNLE ODEREMI and ADAMU AMADU on the state of affairs in the party, spate of defections from its fold and the ongoing efforts by some leaders to form a coalition to face the ruling All Progressives Congress (APC) in the next general election in the country.

YOU are among the prominent Nigerians that founded the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) in 1998. It was on the platform of the party you became the governor of Jigawa State. But, the PDP today is no longer what it used to be due to internal crisis. So, how do you see the circumstances the party has found itself?

Look, I have been saying that there is no cause for alarm.

 

Why, when the centre can no longer hold in your party?

We have been in this thing for the last 45 years. We have seen both things that are fake and real. We have been able to withstand all and gone through real and proper party, which is under a formidable opponent, we have been able to weather the storm and then survive.  How much more a fake party being runs by a leader who is more like an emperor who is prepared to abandon his role as the leader of the Nigerian State; a leader who has turned his office into a political party office using state organs, operators, institutions to intimidate, harasses and coerce people to follow him.  To me, the government is a Nigerian government even it came through the All Progressives Congress (APC). Since he took the oath of office, he is supposed to be a Nigerian leader governing the country based on its own constitution, rules and regulations. But currently, he has turned the country into political enterprise. The Office of the President, which is highly exalted, which should be a symbol of the nation, has been dwarfed and pulled down to the level of a party office. If it is the APC as a political party that is giving us a run for our money, I have no problem.  APC can fight us because of our position as a political party, but when the president is using his office to fight us on behalf of APC and fight PDP knowingly, it is wrong. You are aware f the ongoing intimidation of PDP members in Rivers, Delta and other states of the federation I find the situation disturbing and unsettling. It is terribly nauseating because when you talk about corruption and you talk about the high office Tinubu is holding, I don’t think he is on the moral ground to talk of corruption. I don’t think so. Because if you look at what Nuhu Ribadu (National Security Adviser) talked about in 2003 under President Olusegun Obasanjo about Tinubu’s tenure as governor of Lagos State and others presently in his government, he (Tinubu) has no moral ground to try anybody about corruption. I don’t think so. In terms of nepotism and use of state institutions as a personal enterprise, it is like what has been said on the Sokoto to Lagos, Lagos to Calabar road projects. These are clear things that bother on the real abuse of office. They harassed, intimidated and blackmailed Dr Ifeanyi Okowa because of the certain allegations. I don’t think he has that kind of moral authority, I mean it.

The office is being abused; it has been diminished to be used for political purposes. It has therefore lost on essence. As I said destroying PDP, using the government machineries is not in his interest. He needs PDP more than any other person to service that office, otherwise, he is going to be a big loser if he destroys PDP. So, I urge him to distinguish the Office of the president from the APC. He should stop interfering in the affairs of the PDP; it is not good for him; it, is not good for the country and our own image. It is dangerous for all of us.

 

As the leading opposition party, the PDP would have checkmated the authorities if it had been able to put its house in order. Perhaps, the perceived lapses you have talked about regarding our democracy and governance would have been avoided. Don’t you believe so?

 What we are going through is not a natural political phenomenon. It is not real. It is the government of the day that is behind it. No matter what we do, when the whole government is against you, how did you survive? The problem is not that the PDP has failed to put its house in order. No! The government is simply involving itself in our internal affairs. I don’t mind if APC as a party, harasses, vilifies and abuse us; there is no problem. But,  the government is a Nigerian government. It is for all: APC, PDP and the other parties. So, PDP has not failed. Gives us four to five months, before the end of this year, all those that are leaving PDP are going to come back because the APC is already entangled. He needs PDP to save him.

 

Some leading opposition politicians, aggrieved chieftains of the APC and others are making brisk moves to form a coalition that can successfully challenge the ruling party in the next general election.

Look, when talk about a coalition, merger or whatever; you are talking about institutions that are organic. In 2013, there were political parties that were relatively well organized ike the Congress for Progressives Change (CPC ) under Muhammadu Buhari, the Action Congress of Nigeria (ACN) under Bola Tinubu, the All Nigeria peoples Party (ANPP) under its governors and a faction of the All Progressives Grand Alliance (APGA). They were political party that were organised with structures and leadership. Therefore, whatever Buhari, Tinubu, ANPP governors going in to discussion. Therefore, whatever Buhari, Tinubu, ANPP governors PDP national Assembly members under some PDP governors that joined them then stand. Today is not a coalition of a political parties, is coalition pigmentation. In any case when you said coalition how? I mean what is the component? I want know the component. Nobody talks on behalf of them and who they are. They are individuals who left the government of APC, the Ameachis, El-Rufa’is. The CPC component said those talking are not real CPC of Buhari’ s formation. Those who are ACN are safe to stay in APC Those of PDP, I mean people like George Akume, Godswill Akpabio and the rest are, safe in their party (APC). So, when people are talking about merger or coalition, under which structure? They are individuals and not structures.  In PDP, who are going to merge with? The position of the party is very clear. Its National Executive Committee (NEC) has spoken on the matter. They said they will not go anywhere. The PDP Governors Forum, Board of Trustees (BOT) and National Assembly members, former governors, all said they are not going anywhere. When you said about PDP talking, who is talking on behalf of  PDP?  Look, all the structures arel intact in PDP. So, there is no comparison between the scenario of 2013, which was well organised with organic leadership and structures. Today, the people are talking as individuals on the issue of coalition. Nobody is talking on behalf of any group.

 

 Lately, main stakeholders in your party are making conscious efforts to resolve the internal contradictions that have led to the protracted crisis in the PDP. We are aware of a crucial meeting coming up this month to address some of the nagging issues. As a founding founder, what do you think is the way forward for party?

Look, the way forward for PDP is the way forward for Nigeria.

 

How did you mean sir?

This is because if you destroyed PDP, you have destroyed Nigeria. If you look at the role of PDP from 1999 to date, if you look of what PDP produced in terms of leaderships: former presidents, former governors, former ministers, therefore if you remove the PDP components in the last 25 years, there is no Nigeria. So, people need to think and equally appreciate what PDP has done for Nigeria. When you said the way forward for PDP, it is the way forward for Nigeria. Now, the government is using the office of president to destroy political parties, that means that the particular aspect that gives the PDP the kind of life is threatened. The more Tinubu tries to destroy the party, the more he could work against his own interest.  He is just being clever by half. To destroy an institution like PDP is not good for him or for Nigeria. Nigeria will be the big loser if he should work for the collapse of the PDP.

 

You said those political leaders leaving the PDP will soon come back to the party in spite of the fact that the wave of defection has subsisted. What gives you that confidence that they would have a rethink over their action?

What I said is give us till the end of this year, those defectors are coming back to PDP. The current trend is because of the fear of the Economic and Finacial crimes Commission (EFCC). Tell me those people in the APC, who among them is clean? Tell me anyone. Also, by the authority of Adams Oshiomhole, who claimed that no matter how dirty you are, if you come to APC, God will forgive your sin. So, there is no way such people will come together and free in Nigeria; it is not possible. People should not be afraid because of the EFCC. Let the agency go after those individuals in the APC first before they harass others. People should not feel intimidated.. To me, the way they’re going about it, God will consume them.

 

There has been heightened insecurity in a few states, especially in Benue, Plateau and Kaduna states, resulting in heavy fatalities. What is your take on the situation and what needs to be done to tame the menace before it degenerates further?

I should be asking you. How much is in your pocket. How much do you have there in your pocket? Can it feed you tomorrow and the day after? I’m asking you! That is my position on the state of the nation. It is all about crises and misfortunes. The person asking me this question I believe can’t feed himself very well today. The state of the nation is just how you are in; that is the state of the nation.

 

Some eminent citizens have initiated moves to convene a summit on the state of democracy in the country and other challenges facing Nigerians. What is your view?

You are simply inviting a very lazy conversation. You feel overwhelmed; therefore, you are losing bearing. Relax, the country will survive the current trails in the next few months; you wait and see. We have been in a worse situation than this. The lacuna in man-made. Tinubu wants his own empire like small Lagos. No, Nigeria is not Lagos. The kind of monopoly and dominance he had in Lagos is not possible in Nigeria. He is simply doing so because he only knows Lagos. Ask him where Dutse is. Where is Jalingo in Taraba State? Where is Birnin Kebbi or Gwandu? He doesn’t know. He is using Lagos as his own reference point and Lagos is not Nigeria. Nigeria is made up different cultures, tribes and many other things, unlike where he can simply put under his control.

 

What is your impression about the war against the corruption in the country?

 Corruption is now in charge in the country.

 

Kindly expatiate. 

The road contract between Lagos and Calabar, there was no advert for tenders; there was no bidding; there was no due process. No provision for it in the budget. There was no approval by the National Assembly. Just one man awarded the contract and you talk about corruption. I beg your pardon.

 

The Minister of Works claimed the project followed due process.

Was he not PDP? That minister was PDP’s governor, so it is the PDP invention, is a PDP creation.

 

How?

What I’m saying who gave the bridge in Nigeria? Minus PDP, who knows him? Was he not a PDP governor? Isn’t it? All his profile is PDP

 

As an elder, Nigerians would want to benefit from your wealth of experience, wise counsel on how to tackle the multifaceted socioeconomic and other challenges facing the country.

That time (2014) we were blackmailed that we (PDP government) could not secure Nigeria. You would recall the issue of the Chibok girls, and others. Isn’t it? The question now is, are we better off? Buhari, a northerner, spent eight years as president. What did he do for  Nigeria or for the North? Nothing!

 

So, you don’t think for eight years he was able to make a difference in governance?

Tell me what he delivered. People cannot drive between the Kaduna and Abuja highway for eight years. Or could they drive on the road? Number two, he was there for eight years, he could not finish the highway. What are you talking about?

 

How do we address the issue of insecurity since peace and stability are precursors for development and economic growth and prosperity?

What we need is a political party with a philosophy to govern Nigeria and that will work for Nigeria to save Nigeria. Therefore, the only way out is PDP; it is the only forward.  The APC is a 2014 amalgamation. 4. It is an amalgamation of evil and hate.. I said it in 2014. The entire purpose of APC is to grab power, not for Nigeria. PDP lost in the past; now, Nigeria has also lost.

 

There are ongoing preparations by the authorities to hold a population census. The delay in conducting the exercise has robbed the country of relevant statistics for national development.

What else should I  tell you? What else? You see, the actual purpose of government is to provide the basic needs of the citizens. This government is destroying the political structures of the country. It is trying to turn it into a one-man entity, not a one-party state. Before this government, the country was properly managed. There was the rule of law; there was respect for human rights. But this government is creating an entity for an individual. All of us in Nigeria are dying in the article of merchandise. We are locked in a cool store which is called the bigger Lagos; we are going to micro Lagos or a bigger Lagos, all by one man. Again, Tinubu is not for the Yoruba.  He is not there for anybody, never mind his name. The Yoruba are complaining. The Tinubu government is not a Yoruba government at all. The so-called Yoruba with him are his own boys.

 

You would recall that opposition politicians equally accused the administration of former President Olusegun Obasanjo of muzzling them and gravitating the country to a one-party state during his bid for second term in office in 2003. So, history appears to be repeating itself, given the current outcry by the opposition parties.

No, under Obasanjo, no matter what you may say, there was what we call the rule of law because the National Assembly was more than willing to stand against his wish. No matter what he tried to do, the National Assembly worked based on its mandate. There was separation of power. No matter what he tried to do, there was an institution, which defended the constitution.

The current National Assembly leadership equally claims they are doing the needful, that their activities and performance are based on constitutional provisions, contrary to what some critics have labeled the legislature as the rubber stamp of the executive.

I beg try to be serious. I beg you, I carry God beg you be serious.

 

Are you saying there are no checks and balance in the relationship between the two arms of government now?

Aren’t you in Nigeria? Aren’t you a Nigerian? You are only trying to be tutorial.

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