It will be difficult for PDP brand to win any election in 2019 —Okupe

Dr Doyin Okupe, a stalwart of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), served former Presidents Olusegun Obasanjo and Goodluck Jonathan as spokesperson. In this interview with DARE ADEKANMBI, he projects into the 2019 elections as they relate to the South-West, the reform in PDP and the mega party arrangement, among others.

 

WHAT have you been doing since your tenure expired in May 2015 as SSA to the immediate past president? Have you returned to the medical practice?

I stopped practising as a medical doctor around 1993. I have since moved into politics and business. After the 2015 elections, I took a break. I was away for about six months. Working in the Presidency is a tough job, especially the Presidency of Dr Goodluck Jonathan and the election, as well as the disappointment of failing. It was pretty tough, because it was an election we thought we were not going to lose. I am 65 and so I have paused a bit to take stock of life and just take things a little bit easy. I am lucky in the sense that I have nine children and six of them have completed their education to Master’s degree level and I have two, who will finish in the next one year or so, and I have a little boy. So, I am not too much under stress.

I set out ab initio to achieve a purpose. I came into politics deliberately. I had a choice. I was admitted at the Royal College of Surgeons in Edinburgh and I had already paid fully and was about a week to my departure. I had sold everything I had. I only had a child then. But somehow, something inside me revolted and I wanted to play on a larger scale and not in a small theatre, like the theatre in LUTH or UCH. I wanted a larger theatre. It was on my last working day at Saint Nicholas Hospital that I decided I would go into politics. The next day, I went to attend the National Party of Nigeria (NPN) meeting at Oshodi in Lagos State. What I set out to achieve in politics, regrettably, I have not done so.

 

Why and what is that thing?

Twice, God has brought me close to the seat of power. I have been inside the bedroom of power in this country. But twice I have failed to achieve what I wanted to achieve. So, I am re-designing my interest. I am not going to contest for any office really. But I will help people who want to do so. But more importantly to me, as a compromise so that my life and my venture into politics would not have been a total waste of time, I want to see if I can spend whatever energy I have and the experiences I have gathered to begin to work with a group of people who can help to prepare a stage or platform for the emergence of good governance in the country. And I want to start regionally because it is easier for me.

 

Was that why you attended the launch of the Yoruba Patriots Movement (YPN) in Ibadan some weeks ago where politicians across political divides pressed for the resetting of the political button of Yorubaland?

In fact, that is the alluring thing for me in the group. When I was invited to join the YPM, I saw a window of opportunity to achieve that which I had already decided to explore. Basically, our mission in YPM is to try and bring as many political tendencies as possible in Yorubaland on one platform. We know it is not going to be easy. But, we are going to give it our best shot. We want to see how we can use that resulting synergy and unity to chart a new socio-economic course for the Yoruba people. There has been a lot of confusion among our people and even our friends about whether economy comes first or whether it is politics that should come first. But we have concluded that politics is the key to socio-economic development of any group of people. There should not be a misunderstanding here. We are not for Yoruba pulling out of the union. Chief Olusegun Obasanjo was president for eight years. Currently, we have the vice-president, Professor Yemi Osinbajo, who is also a Yoruba man. It is going to take time for a Yoruba man to be president again. If you look at the history of the country, over a period of time, things have not improved nationally. We have not been stagnant, but we have not made too much progress. Many people call it all sorts of names-leadership failure and all that. To some of us, that is not too important. What is of concern to us is that we are paying too much attention to the centre. There are so many things that can be done on the regional or zonal basis and for which we don’t need the central government to come and tell us how we should do things.

For instance, if the South-West believes that it has the resources and the wherewithal to put together world-class hospitals in maybe Lagos, Ibadan and Akure at the level of services abroad and at a cheaper cost, people will stop going abroad for treatment. We don’t need permission from the Federal Government to do that. I don’t see any reason why the Lagos State government, which is endowed with enormous resources, cannot provide its own electricity 24/7. There should be no need for approval from the Federal Government to do that.

Our mission, therefore, is to return the Yoruba to where we were pre- and immediate post-independence, when we were the pride of Africa. It was the South-West that had the first television station, the first to have colour television in the whole of Africa. We had the Obafemi Awolowo Stadium, which was formerly Liberty Stadium. The Yoruba built Cocoa House. We were number one in education. Unfortunately, we are going down in rating in these areas. So, we are saying we should go back to the basics, to our forgotten ethical values. We had people who ran government but who didn’t steal and there was no EFCC or ICPC at that time because it was not necessary.   If you had wealth that you could not explain, you were ostracised. It was natural. I once mistakenly came back from school with a ruler that belonged to the girl that sat with me. My mother beat me throughout the night and followed me to school the next morning. The girl had to explain that we sat together and that the ruler was mistakenly packed with my things. That was the seriousness with which we held honesty and probity.

We in YPM are saying we want a new political and economic agenda for the South-West. Yoruba believe they just live by the sweat of their labour. That is who we are. We must return to that era. Yoruba didn’t beg, cheat or cut corners. Yoruba believed in industry and hard work. That is what we must return to.

We have met with a majority of the Kabiyesi in Yorubaland and they have welcomed the idea. We have met with political leaders, spiritual leaders and we are talking to young people also. We are not talking about politics or APC or PDP of Labour or Accord. This is South-West. For us, our politics in 2019 is going to be dictated by the universality in the acceptance of these norms. We have had a time in the South-West when all the governors were in the Alliance for Democracy (AD). There was a time PDP governors were in the majority. But we have not used these chances for the best of the people of Yorubaland. Now, we need to repeat that scenario and use it for the development of the people. I have read the DAWN economic agenda which I have read and it is fantastic. We are going to work and improve on it. We are going to look at in what area do we excel? What resources do we have where? How best can we use these resources to develop our people? We want the Yoruba people to be economically liberated, to fight poverty and create wealth. We want to institutionalise our previous ethical values.

 

The question people will ask is why is this coming up now?

If not now, when? There seems to be no direction. Things are not so good in the country. We cannot vouch for those who will be there about what they will do with the government. The South-West has regrettably gone down in many indices of development. In infrastructure, commercial development and human capital development we are not doing well. This is the best time. Yoruba are known for high ethical standards. We need to demonstrate this through good governance and return to our position as a shinning example. There were about 600 resolutions reached at the National Conference of 2014. These are not likely to see the light under the Buhari government. We are going to put up a committee that will look into them and see the recommendations that can be implemented without flouting any law or confronting the Federal Government. This is why we need a common platform so that we can have similar governments across the South-West and we can synergise.

Most of our states can’t pay salary. Since when did that start? It wasn’t like this before. South-West should not be part of beggars who take begging bowls to Abuja every month for federal allocation. If Ogun, Oyo, Osun and Ondo states cultivate 1, 000 hectares of cocoa every year, they will earn something close to $3million per annum and in 10 years, it will be $30m. Palm oil, is more expensive than crude oil. How long are we going to continue to rely on the Niger Delta’s crude oil for survival? Let us produce cocoa, palm oil and others in Yorubaland. If we do this, there will be no reason for us not to pay salary.  We have enough resources and favour from God. We can use Lagos as an economic hub to drive commerce throughout the South-West. We have enough resources to live a good live as a people. We have too much human resource all over the world that if they see our seriousness we can give them something commensurate with what they are earning where they are, they will come home and develop the Yorubaland.

We need to convince our people that we must come under one platform politically for 2019. It is not a question of whether somebody likes APC or hates PDP. It is our first priority as a people to look for the socio-economic survival and comfort of our people and the collective wealth of our nationality. If there are X, Y, Z parties, we can agree that people can belong to X, Y, Z parties and we can agree that for the Presidency, we are going to vote for a particular candidate. It will be easy for us to take a collective decision not a matter of dictating to anybody. We will have a joint commission that will handle that. We are not going to benefit personally from this except the satisfaction that it happens during our lifetime and that we are part of those who made history. What did Chief Obafemi Awolowo benefit personally from the Free Education Programme or the industrial estate that he created in Ikeja and other places? Now, we need a new crop of leaders of the Awolowo clan who can put down their lives, knowledge, resources and work with others to develop the South-West. We need a new Awolowo clan in the leadership of the South-West. We need to take the region to a new level and God is going to help us. South-West can become the Japan of Africa.

We are not going to run for the Presidency in 2019. But part of the conditions for whoever wants our support will be that the person shall implement restructuring of the country. By this, we are not saying we want to secede. We believe in restructuring because that is what is going to release the creative potentialities of our own people. Restructuring will take away a lot of legislative encumbrances and will liberate us. The South-West can jointly produce 6, 000 megawatts of electricity through solar. But after doing this, the region will have to discuss with the bulk purchasers, and so on. All the hindrances will not be there if we restructure the country. All this moving together and carrying a heavy load together is what is slowing us down. Let us develop at our own pace.

Look at the United Arab Emirates, Dubai didn’t take permission from anybody to develop its infrastructure. After Dubai, other Emirates are coming up like Abu Dhabi. Restructuring enhances development in the regions. We won’t get anywhere if we continue to wait on the Federal Government to dictate where development will come from. We have been trying to pass the PIB for how many years now? That is not seriousness. If the entire control of the petroleum resources is in the hands of the people in the South-South, PIB will be passed in three months in their own local assembly. But because it is a national thing and there is too much interest, it has not seen the light of day. It took us eight years to unbundle NEPA [PHCN]. There is no longer time for that kind of holding back in Nigeria any more. We are not saying we want to secede from the country, but Nigeria must not strangulate any part of it from developing. There is no reason why people in the South-West should go to bed without food. There is no reason a child in the South-West cannot go to school on account of his or her parent being unable to pay school fees. No reason a man should die of diabetes because he can’t foot his hospital bill.  It may happen elsewhere, but not in the South-West. And if God has been so kind to us, why must we enslave ourselves?

 

Promoters of YPM have been accused of working secretly for the presidential aspiration of former Vice-President Atiku Abubakar…

This is not true. When we met Chief Obasanjo, the matter was raised. I told him I see the people behind YPM as men and women of honour and integrity.  I also told him that at the level that I have reached, I don’t know any of the leading politicians in this country that can fool me. I can fool people, but nobody can fool me. There are people who are in YPM who are friends of Atiku; people who are friends of Buhari. Chief Bisi Akande, more or less, is like our patriot and he is a friend of Buhari. When we need advice, we run to him and he gives us. We have met Senator Bola Tinubu and have told him this is a Yoruba agenda. It is not put together for any presidential arrangement. A majority of the governors that will come in the South-West in 2019 will come from a common platform, depending on what the group decides. We join political parties for the purpose of taking part in elections and to elect our leaders, and not because we want to imbibe the programme of such parties.

 

Is the group also not to defend Tinubu and others who are perceived to have lost out in the power game in Buhari’s government?

YPM came into being about two years ago.

 

It was not prominent then?

Yes, I agree and it is still not prominent. We are still doing a lot of underground work. It is injustice to us to say that we are put together to fight for Tinubu. However, if it falls under our purview to defend any Yoruba man anywhere and for any reason, we will do it. We will stand for and by our own anywhere and anytime.

 

Your party, PDP, is aching in all joints and the common refrain is that the party can’t survive the current crisis that has engulfed it.

Only God knows what will happen to the PDP. I am not in the habit of lying even when it comes to public discourse. PDP is heavily burdened and much of the burden is self-inflicted. In the last administration, an error was committed. Before we disengaged after we lost the election, we should have straightened the leadership of the party. We did not do that and that was a fundamental error. This gave room for all comers and pretenders to the throne; people who have not even learnt the ABC of politics to become leaders in PDP. There is a grand error in party administration in the country and I think it started from the Obasanjo administration. Once you are a governor, you become the leader of the party. This is a fallacy.

 

But the governors provide the money to run the party and…

That doesn’t make them the leaders. Chief Awolowo as the leader of the Action Group and in the caucus of the leadership, he was the poorest. My father and others were members of the caucus. They were wealthy people, but the leadership of the party depended on Awolowo and he was not wealthy. So, money can’t confer leadership on anybody. And where money becomes the common denominator, things will not stand. It is happening because people are not really ready for politics. How much can a governor bring to run the party in these days of anti-corruption and dwindling resources? Out of the 36 governors, I am sure you can’t find up to 30 that will be willing to put down N3billion each to run any party. Where will they get the money from, when they are still struggling to pay the salaries of workers?

Whereas a party that has 10 million committed followership will raise more than N3 billion if the members pay N50 a month. This is the level we must carry political parties to in Nigeria. A party can’t be owned by a few people. The Action Group endured because it had multiplicity of financiers. If you have about 5, 000 financing a political party and if 10 decide to walk away, it is bad luck for them because others will continue.

Governorship or election into any elective office doesn’t confer political leadership. In Ikenne Local Government Area of Ogun State where I hail from, my younger brother, Honourable Ladi Adebutu, is representing us in the House of Representatives. Will he say he is my leader because he is a Rep member, which he will do for four years and come back? How can a part be bigger than a whole? It is an absurdity and anomaly in PDP that we must cure.

 

Will the governors allow your proposal that parties should be funded by members to sail through?

It is not they but the people who should dictate the running of the party. That is why the slogan of the party says power belongs to the people.  It is because we don’t have politicians on stage that we have this kind of undue advantage by the governors. Haven’t you seen governors who lost re-election bids? Did they want to lose? The people shoved them off.

 

Is that the level you will want a new PDP to get to?

It is not PDP alone. If one party is sick, all parties in the country will become sick. AD, AC, ACN never went that way before. During the Second Republic, the governors were subordinates in the parties.  When I was in the NRC and the NEC of the party was going to meet, the governors waited outside for the communiqué of our meeting. But, when the PDP came, it brought this abnormal structure. Do you know that when APC came, governors of the party are leaders in their states? That is a joke.  It is politics of mercantilism. It is not going to work. If a governor contest an election and there are five people who slugged it out with him and he gets 35 per cent of the total votes, who made that governor the leader of the remaining 65 per cent?

 

A committee headed by Professor Jerry Gana, met with leaders of seven smaller opposition parties to explore building a synergy for 2019…

PDP is indulging in an unnecessary arrogance that will further make it to fail.

 

How do you mean?

From the time of Jonathan, the party has been extensively mauled, disparaged and destroyed within and outside this country by negative propaganda. And unfortunately, we were not able to sufficiently counter this propaganda. When Buhari’s government came, it finally buried the previous government and the party that brought that government to power. It will be impossible, except by the grace of God Almighty alone, to use the brand, PDP to win any election in the country again.

 

Why did you say this?

We have been called thieves and all sorts of names. We have not been able to say we are not thieves. All sorts of lies have been heaped and are still being heaped on us till tomorrow and we have not disabused the minds of Nigerians about these lies. We are waiting for election time, when we will tell Nigerians not to mind the APC people. Nobody is going to listen to us.

 

Do you then subscribe to a name change as canvassed being in some quarters?

We must merge with other parties and we must be prepared to drop the name PDP. This is why I said we are indulging in undue arrogance. The name is not likely going to fly.

 

Has Obasanjo truly and sincerely forgiven you and former President Jonathan after going to him for that purpose?

I can’t speak for anybody. But I can speak for the relationship between me and former President Obasanjo. To put it in the Yoruba way, where Baba Obasanjo and I put it is very high. If President Obasanjo is holding a meeting with his children and I walk in inadvertently, neither he nor his children will ask me to go out. That is how deep it is. I did something I considered to be expedient politically but which was wrong. People talk about EFCC; no. Between us, it is not about EFCC. I didn’t go to beg him for fear of EFCC. I offended him personally.

 

You offended him while defending the Jonathan government which you were part of…

I didn’t defend anybody. I never abused Obasanjo in the newspapers; not at all. Something happened, I did something and he and I knew I was the one who did it. It was on the basis of that that I went to apologise. I believe what he said that “Doyin, it is over.” It may not be over for other people, I don’t know. But he has forgiven me.

 

What do you make of Jonathan’s visit to Obasanjo’s place?

I don’t know anything about it. I saw him there. But I don’t know why he went and what they discussed. A former head of state meeting another former head of state is nothing unusual in our polity. It happens all the time.

 

What would you describe as Jonathan’s legacy?

Without any fear of contradiction, Jonathan is still the very best in terms of achievements. His government achieved the greatest for the country, better than any government since 1960. That is the truth.

 

Including Obasanjo’s government that you were a part of?

I have just told you the truth. I have just made a statement and I stand by that statement that Jonathan’s government is the best in the country. It may not be Jonathan who did it, but God allowed his administration to achieve the greatest ever from any single administration.  Whether Nigerians agree or disagree, it does not matter. History will show and prove wrong or right. I don’t have to say something nice or bad about him because there is nothing to benefit or be prideful about. But I have said what I know. Forget about the propaganda of APC. I was inside and I saw things first hand. The Jonathan government was a victim of massive unprecedented media hostility and propaganda.

 

What did you do as one of his spokespersons to counter the propaganda?

The fact that you have a good General does not mean when you go to war you will win. It depends on your opponent.

 

Are you saying the APC as an opposition party then was more formidable?

That is exactly my point. We tried for Jonathan, but the opposition was just too much. I want to give it to the opposition then. They were massively, deliberately and overwhelmingly oppressive. And they achieved their result.

 

Do you think the mega party being proposed can play the same role against the APC government in 2019?

Mega party has become a very familiar acronym. Every two or three persons that can put five people together will say they are doing a mega party. The definition of a mega party, in terms of relevance to 2019, will be a major faction of PDP coalescing with a major faction of the ruling APC and harnessing the new and upcoming generation of youthful Nigerians. That is the definition of the real mega party. Anything short of that is just a chicken party. All the three components must be the present in any mega party, that is 70 per cent of the PDP breaking away; 50-60 per cent of the APC breaking away; joining the youthful population. That is the mega party.