We need to take Nigeria back from Pentecostals —Obadare

Professor of sociology at the University of Kansas, US, Ebenezer Obadare, was in Nigeria recently to read from his latest work, Pentecostal Republic: Religion and the Struggle for State Power in Nigeria published by Zed Books/University of Chicago Press in 2018. The first reading happened on Sunday, June 30 at Page Book Connoisseurs, Allen Avenue, Ikeja, Lagos while the second held in Abuja on July 7.
At the Lagos event moderated by columnist and banker, Ifeanyi Uddin, Obadare explained the central arguments of the book, disclosing that it is the first instalment of an anticipated trilogy and that having become denominationally triumphant, Pentecostalism pioneered a new attitude towards politics, leading to a transformation in the historical dynamics between theological agents and holders of political power. After this, he took questions from the audience including poet Odia Ofeimun, Executive Editor of The News/PM News, Kunle Ajibade, MTN Nigeria’s Funso Aina and others. Below are excerpts from the interaction.

The PENTECOSTAL Republic is meticulously researched and wonderfully written. Tease out the exertions you went through researching the book. What were your experiences and second, is there anything in the metaphysical that is lending itself to the growth of Pentecostal republic?

In 2006, I published an article in The Review of African Political-Economy entitled Pentecostal Presidency? and this was about Chief Obasanjo, 1999 to 2007. The basic argument I was making in that article is that Obasanjo went to prison as a mainstream Christian, a Baptist and came out as a Pentecostal. He wrote the book, This Animal Called Man. He started presenting himself as a Pentecostal and that when he got into office, he was first attending service somewhere in Central Abuja and then built a chapel in his office. He made appointments consciously based on whether people were Pentecostal or not.

You know how ideas are, I wrote that and put it aside. But over time something will nudge you towards what you wrote in 2006. When I was asked if I had a manuscript I wanted to publish, I said no. I later attended a conference of the African Studies Association in San Diego. I had a meeting with the Acquisitions Editor, and he said, ‘you still haven’t got back to me’. I said something has been brewing. Let me sleep over it, maybe I will get back to you. After about a couple of months, I did. I wrote a proposal. It was in the process of writing a proposal that the idea formed in my mind. That it’s not just the Pentecostal presidency, but as I argue in the book, if you look at the totality of the Fourth Republic, it’s a Pentecostal Republic which is why the order of chapters in the book has Obasanjo as Pentecostal Presidency 1. There’s what I call The Interregnum of Yar’Adua, and then Pentecostal Presidency 2 and then the Buhari Administration, while not Pentecostal Presidency 3, at least has the mark of Pentecostalism on it with the Vice President, Yemi Osinbajo.

And something is exciting in that. Remember, Buhari won at the fourth time of asking– you wouldn’t know that from the way he has been governing, but the third time, he must have noticed that something had changed in the water. That was the first time he appointed a Pentecostal to be his running mate, Pastor Tunde Bakare. And as I argue in the book, the next election, he still knew that the Pentecostal influence was strong, so he went after another Pentecostal in Pastor Yemi Osinbajo. Between 2006 and 2017, the book gradually formed itself in my mind so that when I began to write it, it took me about eight months. And as I started writing it, because I had also published several articles on religion and politics, it occurred to me that there was something else to write.

The next book is My Pastor Says. It’s about politics and sexuality, and Pastor Biodun Fatoyinbo is going to feature prominently in it. I wrote a journal article last year published in Citizenship Studies on what I called ‘The Charismatic Porn Star’, and he’s one of the people that I referenced.

Is there anything in metaphysics that licenses this? It’s a question that you could ask about the mix of the theological and political everywhere, but I think what has happened over the last 20 years– and I’m giving away some of the arguments in the next book– is that sociologically, something has happened to Nigeria that we need to take account of. There was a point in Nigeria where the intelligentsia was dominant in terms of shaping the dominant ideas in the universities, in think tanks, the general literati. My argument in the next book is that over the last 20 years, a consistent process of degradation has happened such that the flight of intellectuals from the universities abroad, the creation of a Diaspora abroad, collectively have created a vacuum in the social space in Nigeria. It is into that social space that all these pastors and other charlatans have stepped into.

These are the sociological antecedence of the emergence of Daddy GO, Pastor Fatoyinbo and others. Ordinarily, they should be non-entities, but because the social space has been vacated by the intelligentsia, these people have stepped in. The task for us is to repopulate that space with ideas; not just ideas that are contrary to theirs but ideas that are superior to theirs and to bring back the tradition of critical thinking in our universities.

You spoke about the retreat of the critical minds, and you seem to be confident that that trend can be reversed, but there appears to be lack of appetite for anything critical. Can we change the pattern?

We need to return to the argumentative culture. I can’t think of any developed society where universities have not been the drivers of ideas, discussions, where people continuously push out ideas. We are suffering from the degradation and complete evacuation of our universities. If we are going to do what we have all agreed to, our focus will have to be on taking our universities back and repopulating them with the right personnel, and re-orientating our university, basically.  We need to tell people that reading is hard, severe, and it requires people to keep still. Just you and your thoughts.

What was the reception from Pastors while collecting data for the book?

Sometimes my reputation precedes me, and I’m not successful. Let me give you one instance. I was going to interview Dr Daniel Olukoya, so I sent him a text. Within two minutes, he responded, and I was like my gamble has paid off.  I responded right away, and then he said, your last name is Obadare? Are you related to the same Obadare? Looking back, I should have said yes. I said no, but we are from the same town. That was the last I heard from him.

Sometimes you go to see a Pastor, and you are lucky to see the Pastor arrive, and at the moment, you realise that the Pastor has metamorphosed into the equivalent of a political big man. What you are dealing with is deep-seated, and again there’s a sense in which the existential situation of the country sort of also drives that.

Economic insecurity, political insecurity; the fact that people don’t know, almost literally, what tomorrow brings; where’s the next meal going to come from, and this sociological agent comes in and says I’ve got a solution. And he’s saying this in the context of the state that has abdicated every responsibility that it has to the lives of the people. They are going to believe him.  Sometimes I’m very successful, sometimes I fail. Sometimes I’m on a plane, and I see a Pastor. Of course, I’m in my economy seat, and the man is in business. So, I try to engineer something to see if I can get somebody’s attention. Sometimes I would send a note. There are times when you send a letter, and nothing comes back; and sometimes he replies and says when we get to our destination, we can sit at the lounge and chat for 20 minutes. For me, those 20 minutes are absolutely worth it, even if I can only ask five or six questions. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I fail. But even when I don’t see the person I want to see, the very process of trying to conduct research becomes academic to me because I keep a note of everything that I see around me.

Is there any positive thing about Pentecostalism or do you wave it off as an unmitigated disaster?

I hope that people don’t misread my intent in this book. I’m not looking for the correct version or interpretation of Pentecostalism neither am I interested in the wrong version. That’s not my aim. I’m not a theologian. I’m interested in the impact of Pentecostalism on social spaces.