The problems of Nigeria are constitutional —Chief Ayo Adebanjo

adeElder statesman and chieftain of Afenifere, Chief Ayo Adebanjo, in this interview by BOLA BADMUS, speaks on issues affecting Nigeria 58 years after attaining independence.

It will be another Independence Day celebration in a few days’ time. What is your view on how the country is faring?

There is nothing special about the country you are going to hear my view on. We are not where we should be after 58 years and the issue in the country today, no matter what we say, is to change the constitution by restructuring the country and going back to federalism. That is the basic. Whatever anybody may be complaining about at this stage, if the foundation is weak, the building cannot stand. The major cause of disaffection in the country is the constitution. It is the constitution that concentrates powers to the centre that makes members of the [Indigenous People of Biafra] IPOB say they want to go. It is the constitution that gives all the money to the centre that makes the Niger Delta Avengers say they want to go. If we don’t solve the problems, there would be no stability. If there is no stability, there can be no peace and if there is no peace, there would be no progress.

When we are talking of restructuring, it is basic to our further development, not for fun. It is just saying go back to where we started at independence, no more, no less. All those who are opposing restructuring, particularly from the North, they can’t claim to be wiser than the late Sar’dauna of Sokoto. What restructuring is saying is: go back to what Sar’dauna, Nnamdi Azikiwe and Obafemi Awolowo agreed to at independence and that was what was changed in 1966 after the coup. The analysis is clear. Let’s go back to where we started and there will be peace, there will be autonomy for every region and you can now talk of real development. What development would take place when Boko Haram is there operating?

You said the military came to change the constitution. What could have informed that and who do you think could have influenced the military to do that?

When the military staged the coup in 1966, they suspended the Republican Constitution and they were ruling with their military power. So, when they wanted to go in 1998, they talked of returning to the barracks and so they gave us this constitution; it is not our constitution.

What could have made them change the constitution from what it was before they came to power?

Don’t forget that the military is dominated by Northern Muslims. So, all the differences that were ironed out through the Independence Constitution which didn’t favour the North, the Muslim North who dominated the military inserted them. All the things that we are complaining about – resource-control, marginalization and others – were inserted in the constitution by General Abdulsalami Abubakar and the military. It was not a question of what informed them. So, this constitution is not the constitution of the people. The Independence Constitution was the constitution of our leaders and that was what they agreed upon. The constitution we currently have and which we are talking about was made by the military which is dominated by a section of the country.

What were the expectations and dreams of the founding fathers for the country at independence?

The colonialists didn’t give us a good administration and we believed if we ruled ourselves, we would be better than we were; that we could develop. An example of that is that when they started the regional autonomy constitution of 1954, that was when federalism was introduced. When Governor McPherson came to Nigeria, there was no premiership. But when crisis followed the Chief Anthony Enahoro’s motion for self-government, there was disruption in the Federal House. The North then withdrew from the centre, saying they were not going to be part of a federal government. That was when the Colonial Office invited all the leaders to London and that was the beginning of the struggle. It was there they agreed on the Federal Constitution when they created autonomy for the East, for the West and the North. It was at the conference in London that the office of premiership was created and Awolowo and others became premiers. Before then, Awolowo and others in the North and East were Leaders of Government Business.

It was after that autonomy that Awolowo was able to implement free education in the Western Region. Everybody was going according to their own pace in each of the regions. It was agreed then that 50 per cent of the revenue from each region would go to the centre and there was peace. All the development that Awolowo made in the Western Region, there was no occasion for him to go and borrow money from Alhaji Abubakar Tafawa Balewa because the system of distribution of revenue was certain. It was then known as the Derivation System. What we are calling resource control now was known as derivation, that is, the area where resource comes from must have greater part of the resources. But the military came and changed this in 1966 and monopolised everything in favour of the North.

That is what President Muhammadu Buhari is doing now when he loaded all the security of the country to Katsina. When we are talking of restructuring, it is because Buhari does not regard himself as president of the country. It is not the Fulani. It is unfortunate that Buhari is just a bad specimen of Fulani people by what he is doing. After all, we have relationship with other Fulanis who are more enlightened. The Fulani are not condemned because they are Fulani. It is because the man there who is a Fulani is behaving like somebody who is not a Nigerian.

Is there any cause for celebration as Nigeria marks 58 years of independence?

Celebration over what? We have changed from colonial domination to Fulani domination because all that we gained at independence, the military regime since 1966, including Buhari’s, has rubbished them. It is that military constitution that is making people complain. That is why we say, in order to remove the areas of friction, we must go back to where we started and many of you may not know the origin of restructuring.

When the military decided to go in 1998, the civilians said take us back to where you took us from. At that time, we were talking of a Sovereign National Conference (SNC). That is the origin of what we were talking about. If you remember, when President Olusegun Obasanjo was there, his own excuse was that he was not going to submit to anybody. The sovereignty there was not that he should submit his own sovereignty. What we were saying was that whatever that conference decided, nobody must change it. It could only be subjected to a referendum, but he didn’t do it. That is why those of us who fought the late General Sani Abacha never agree that we have a democratic constitution now;

We only have a civilian constitution. Our democratic constitution must be one that is people’s constitution and the nearest to it was the document that came out from the 2014 National Conference under former President Goodluck Jonathan after a long agitation. But the mistake Jonathan made was that he was slow in inaugurating the conference and in implementing the outcome. I warned him then that if he failed to do restructuring, he would be the last Ijaw man to be president constitutionally because that is the constitution that gives peace to everybody; that would allow rotation of power and there would be no fight to the finish like this. Everything was settled in the 2014 National Conference. That is why we accuse Buhari of being dishonest as a leader.

President Buhari is dishonest in what way?

We supported Buhari in 2007 when he promised to do restructuring, but he didn’t win. When Pastor Tunde Bakare was his running mate, he also put restructuring there in his manifesto. Even in the All Progressives Congress (APC) manifesto, restructuring is there. He didn’t do it and nobody in APC would say they didn’t put restructuring in their manifesto. Even former Vice President Atiku Abubakar accused them that restructuring was part of what they (APC) agreed to doing once they were elected into office. That is the problem and until we do that, there wouldn’t be peace in the country.

People are interpreting restructuring to mean different things. Don’t you think the time is now for you to let the people, especially the president, understand the meaning?

Nobody is sitting anybody down; they know the meaning of restructuring. Restructuring means going back to federalism.

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Maybe they didn’t really understand it that way…

Don’t say they didn’t understand it. It is when APC and its leaders want to confuse Nigerians that they will say they don’t understand what restructuring is.

They ask, is it devolution of powers? Is it the state police? They are all the components of restructuring. They are just being dishonest. Even when they now got to power, they now set up the Nasir el-Rufai Commission. Why? They are not honest about it.

Senator Bola Tinubu sold out; he has sold the Yoruba by aligning with Buhari, even at this stage. He agreed with Buhari to do restructuring, to do federalism. When the man now got there and he is not doing it, has Tinubu got the courage to pull out? And I have said it to him and Vice President Yemi Osinbajo. They are unfair to the Yoruba because everybody is thinking that because they represent the Yoruba, all the things against the race, they would address them. But they are quiet on them all.

There are killings right and left, but they are quiet. They are quiet on the issue of revenue allocation. Even the case of local government under this restructuring, Tinubu took Obasanjo to court, it is part of restructuring programme and the man who handled the case in court was Osinbajo. They won the case at the Supreme Court. Under what principle did they take the then President Obasanjo to court? They sold out and the same Osinbajo, who took Obasanjo to court for not following the Federal System, is now saying he does not understand what the federal system means. The unfortunate thing about Osinbajo is that he was born into federalism. His father and I were followers of Awolowo. Osinbajo is intelligent and well informed. It is a sad story that all the Yoruba we believe would be protecting our interest sold out, led by Tinubu. I have told him (Osinbajo) that when you agreed with Tinubu to restructure Nigeria and to allow everybody to develop at their own pace and he is no longer doing that, why don’t you get out if you are sincere and loyal to Yoruba people?

Why is it not easy to do that?

He organised the APC manifesto and put restructuring there to deceive the Yoruba that their interest would be protected and when their interest is no longer protected, why is it that he is still there?

Some people are saying there may not be any need for restructuring and that what the country needs is good leadership that can direct well. Would you agree with this view?

That is irrelevant; we are saying the cause of our problem is the system we are running. You know why I am bored? What I am telling you is the changing of the constitution from federal to unitary system of government. It is the unitary system that empowers Buhari to be doing all the autocratic things he has been doing. What we are talking about is basic; it is the unitary system of government that concentrates powers at the centre that he is making use of. If power is devolved, under the federal system, there would be state police and every other thing. How can you have a constitution where the governor hasn’t got the power over the police? He has made law but he has no instrument to implement the law. Those were the ingredients of federalism. So, they don’t understand what they are saying.

The basic issue is that the moment you deviate from the system under which you agreed to come together, there would be problem. It was the Independence Constitution that made the regions autonomous. It was that power that made Western Region to open an office in London. That is to show you that there was a modicum of autonomy. The office that the Western Region opened in London then, that was where I got married in 1960. We had our Agent General there. Coker was the Agent General. The North had; the East had. It is that system we still hope to come back to and people are confusing issues. But the moment you push that constitution aside, you can do whatever you like under a unitary form of government. That is why we are saying that we need to go to back to that constitution because the constitution we are using now is one we didn’t make and it has allowed them to be doing all these inequities. If there is a federal constitution as it should be, Buhari would have no right to send the army to the East without the consent of the governor there.

When we were at the Constitutional Conference, Ibrahim Coomasie was then the Inspector General of Police. I asked him, ‘you say your federalism followed after America, have you heard of the Inspector General of Police in America?’  The issue of police is a constitutional matter. Even in the Great Britain, which is a unitary system, the issue of the police is normally local.

Let me tell you in a nutshell, if this government is honest enough to go back to the Federal Constitution that we had at independence, there will be minimum friction. It was the powers that the military had that made them to create local government councils anyhow; they created states anyhow. It was not the people of Nigeria that did all these. They said the local government would be the basis of sharing revenue but this is what is causing problems. That was not the constitution we had at the independence; that is what is causing problems. Restructuring is a simple language; it simply means return us to where you took us from. It is not a question of leadership. Any leader that has all these powers would abuse them. What we are saying is that the power that Buhari has now, if it is curtailed, according to the Federal System, nobody would care. I would not bother who is the president if we really have a Federal Constitution. The emphasis must be made; the present constitution we are using is not the people’s constitution. It is a military-imposed constitution.

Is there any hope that Nigeria will eventually be restructured? And if doesn’t happen, what happens to the country?

It is those of us who want Nigeria to remain one that are emphasising that we should go back to federalism which was the basis of our coming together. If we don’t restructure the country, we can never have peace. We should forget about one Nigeria if Nigeria is not restructured. I have said it before.

But is there any hope that the country will be restructured?

It will be and that is what we are fighting for it. Don’t forget that the amalgamation of Nigeria was not by our own choosing; it was done by the colonial people. This is what people are confusing but having been brought together under the amalgamation, we can appreciate the advantage of the economy of scale. But in doing so, we don’t want to be in a union where any unit of the union would feel cheated, which is happening under the unitary system. So, if we still want to stay together, how do we do it? That is the background to federalism as it is in America, Australia and India.

What is your advice for leaders and Nigerians on the way forward now that we are celebrating the 58th Independence Anniversary?

Let them go back to federalism and get rid of Burhari and APC. That is my advice. Buhari and APC have no integrity to rule this country. They are not sincere. Tinubu, who is part and parcel of this government, is a sellout to the Yoruba for his own interest. He is not protecting the interest of the Yoruba as he should. And I ask you, what can Tinubu claim to be the gain of the Yoruba ever since he has been with this government of Buhari? I want the Yoruba to answer this question. Aside from the fact that he gave ministerial appointment to his stooges, what can Yoruba people say we have gained from Tinubu? I don’t hate Tinubu. He is a respectable boy to me. He has never disrespected me but I disagree with the way he is leading the Yoruba ignobly.  He knows enough not to be in alliance with Buhari from the word go. But he thought Awolowo did not know how to do it; that he didn’t know how to deal with people and that he knows better. Okay, having gone into it now, after having handed government to Buhari, is it the better for him [Tinubu]? Has he not been sidelined for the unknown and he couldn’t pull out?

What power is Vice President Osinbajo exercising other than being a public relations officer? All that I am telling you, you should put in black and white. Many people will know that there is not much in Buhari’s brain to rule this country. But the time Tinubu was wise enough to give him Osinbajo as vice president, we thought he would be a redeeming feature but how far has he proven to be redeeming? What power has he got? Can he consciously say he is being treated as the vice president? How much of the security problem in the county does Osinbajo know? I am saying it openly; let him tell us. Even the SSS man he sacked, all that he did then has been undone. Why is he still there?

The vice president is a distinguished lawyer, a brilliant SAN under a democracy. We are saying we are under a democratic organisation, yet you don’t obey series of court judgments and you, a lawyer, are still there. The president went before the assembly of best lawyers in the country and said rule of law was subject to national interest and you are still there. That is enough for Vice President Osinbajo to get out of the cabinet for the sake of his profession and for the sake of his integrity. That is what a lawyer is known for. A lawyer does not succumb to the subjugation of rule of law for personal interest. Who decides national interest? It is not the man there and you are there with all your intellectual quality and with your background, but you succumbed to the president there. It is a shame to the country. It is my wish that he should be able to influence that cabinet.