Sheikh Gumi should show us a single hadith of the holy prophet where he negotiated with terrorists —Akeugbagold

President of the Supreme Council For Islamic Preachers in the Southwest, Sheikh Taofeeq Akeugbagold, in this interview tells Tunde Ayanda and Segun Adebayo the challenges of Islamic preachings, how the government can fight terrorism and why he preaches peaceful co-existence among all religions.

Your name Akeugbagold, how did you come about it?

The name of my forefather was ‘Akeugbaeru’, which means someone perfect in Islamic knowledge to the point that he was given slaves to serve him. The first Alaafin in Oyo Atiba gave him the nickname, ‘Akeugberu’.

There was a day when my great grandfather, who was the first Imam of Oyo, went to the Alaafin, he was jealous of the King’s leaning towards the traditionalist who used to give him predictions. He told the king that the holy Quran could also tell you certain things.

Then he was asked to come and the king asked him the message the Quran had for him. My great-grandfather told him he was to release all slaves in his captivity, telling him the message from the Almighty Allah. Alaafin Atiba released the slaves to my great-grandfather and on that same day he named him “Akeugbaeru”.

During the reign of Alaafin Adeyemi, the last Alaafin of Oyo, I’m also from Oyo, but most of my businesses are here in Ibadan, right from my childhood I’ve been living in Ibadan.

About 20 years ago, I was celebrating my 30 years of preaching, Alaafin Adeyemi was there, and on that day he was so impressed that he removed his gold ring and wristwatch and gave them to me in public. He mentioned the significance of his actions as he repeated what his grandfather gave my great-grandfather and right there he called me ‘Akeugbagold’ the son of ‘Akeugberu’. From that day it became my official name.

Do you still have the ring and wristwatch?

I still have them, they are real gold. I don’t wear them as I see them as my most prized possession judging by the story behind how I got them and the personality that gave them to me.

How did you become a preacher?

I was born into an Islamic cleric house, a family of Imamship in Oyo. There is no way I won’t have an interest in Islamic knowledge as every member of my family does. You don’t have to be a cleric or preacher, but any member of my family must have core Islamic knowledge. We were trained like that right from our childhood. When I was growing up I started having an interest in the preachings of Sheikh Adam Abdullah Al-Ilory, the first proprietor of Markaz, Agege. I loved his preachings, he always did a lot of research before he came on air.

Again I also traveled to Ilorin to watch Kamarudeen’s lecture, the first mufti of Ilorin. I later followed Sheikh Akilapa in Ibadan here, also Baba Muideen Bello, and many more. From there, I derived an interest in becoming an Islamic preacher, and so far it’s one of the ultimate things my father wanted me to be, he gave me all the necessary support. He would sit me down and tell me a lot of stories from the Quran, stories of great Islamic leaders in Yorubaland, and many others, and it was from there that the interest developed and till today I have no regret in what I’m doing.

Your nature of preaching encourages co-existence between Christians and Muslims. Has this in any way pitched you against your fellow Muslim brothers?

Truly, when I first started about 15 years ago, I met a lot of challenges, especially from the muslim brothers. They believed Muslims, Christians, and idolaters were supposed to be enemies. It was a big problem then. But my mum was from a Christian family in Ogbomoso. As a child, I usually went to her family to spend my holidays. We would go to their churches together during Christmas and when I was in primary school I was a choirmaster even though I’m from an Imam family. I know a lot about Christianity, I was one of the best students in bible knowledge in my primary and secondary school. When I became a renowned cleric, I can see it is just three differences that exist between Christianity and Islam, aside from this, it’s the same religion. Islam claims the same prophet as it is in the bible, from A to Z except for Prophet Mohammed who Christians don’t accept that his name was mentioned in the holy bible, but we Muslims believe his name was mentioned in the holy bible. It is only the exception of the three-in-one which the later day Christians brought in, the Lord of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit which Islam counters.

Also, when we are talking of morality, Islam and Christianity preach the same thing. I traveled wide and I know a lot of things that a lot of Islamic clerics around us don’t know. I mentioned it in one of my preachings about my experience in Riyadh. I was coming from Riyadh and going to London, an Arab was sitting beside me and he dressed in the normal Arabian way, he wore his jalabia, the red scarf and the coil which they usually use to hold it and he looked very handsome. I said salaam aleykum to him and he replied, we started talking about religion and to my utmost surprise he told me he was a Christian. I was surprised because I didn’t know there are Christians in Saudi Arabia. He told me they are a minority but they have every right and authority to practice Christianity but that it must not be pronounced in public. He said he was schooled in America, and he is a Christian.

I’ve also met some Indians who wear their turban but in our conversation, I would later know they are not Muslims but Hindus who are worshipping a cow. I always mention this to my people. I can’t say because I’m a Muslim, I will cause a war here and travel to Saudi Arabia and tell them that the Quran says we are one. Nigeria is our land and we should learn to live in peace, we should respect all other religions.  The Quran also says we shouldn’t abuse those who are worshipping other gods. God has the power to make the whole world practise one religion, so why are we fighting ourselves? What is the essence of the day of resurrection if we are here fighting ourselves?

why can’t you let Allah judge? Humanity comes before religion. My chief driver is a Christian and I trust him more than my fellow Muslim brothers because he has been with me for a long time and has never betrayed my trust, all I need is his professionalism.

We hear of bandits using Islam to kidnap and kill people, what comes to your mind when you hear this?

As a reasonable Muslim, there is no way one will not feel bad when you hear this. Islam is something I know very well. I read a lot about Islam, and I trained a lot in Islam. How can someone come and tell me killing is part of Islam? Beheading someone who abused the Quran is also not part of Islam. Where in the holy Quran has Almighty Allah told anyone to kill for insulting the Quran? What we can do is take the person to court, or if there are any other means of making the person realize his mistake without killing him, that would have been the best. Even when the holy prophet was alive, some people called him a madman, but he never killed them because of that.

Again look at the issue of Boko Haram, it is not Islamic, you can never see the Arab or Islamic world talking in favour of Boko Haram, it’s political and not Islamic.

What would you have proposed as a solution?

One of the Islamic philosophers said whenever any problem occurs, try to solve it in time.  The issue of Boko haram is political and not religious. Why would you go into a village and kill innocent people? That’s why I frown at the step of Sheikh Gumi, his action counters Islamic teachings. Negotiating with terrorists!

You don’t appreciate that?

I can never appreciate it. Why would you negotiate? Sheikh Gumi should show us a single hadith of the holy prophet where he negotiated with terrorists, it never happened. The prophet would go after them, fight, and win them. He would never negotiate. I’m appealing to Sheikh Gumi, he comes from a noble home, and his father has a reputation as one of the most respected clerics. Gumi should take after his father. He should go back to the classrooms and teach people Islam, and guide people towards the way of Allah instead of going into the bush to negotiate with terrorists. It’s not Islamic and since he has been negotiating has there been a solution? The money they collect they use to buy arms again.

But at some point, his intervention worked?

That’s a temporary solution. Has that solved the whole problem? Every problem has a lasting period.

What solution would you offer?

The government shouldn’t just sit and pretend nothing is happening. The government should encourage youths into agriculture, poverty is the problem. I’ve said this countless times that palliatives and food sharing are nothing but a waste of money. The government should encourage agriculture. This country is producing nothing and we don’t want dollars to rise. Let there be social amenities in all agricultural settlements, let there be soft loans for farmers. I’m in charge of the soft loans for farmers in Oyo State under Governor Seyi Makinde. Other States should think along that line to ensure abundant food. According to the holy books, during the reign of Pharaoh, when they suspected that famine was coming, the solution they had was to go back into agriculture and produce food they could eat for another seven years. They did that and they were saved from the famine. In the southwest, how many people are into farming? Go to the North and see the perfect irrigation system. I said that it was shameful when the Lagos State governor organized a rice pyramid and celebrated Kebbi rice in Lagos. Kebbi is a desert, over Lagos where there is water and fertile soil, it’s unfortunate. Indonesia has one of the longest rivers in the world, and most of its land is covered with water, yet they are one of the highest agriculture-producing countries in the world, even though they are living on water.

We said herders have taken over our farms, are we saying the government should come and drive them away every time? What measures have we taken? When these people see lands that are not in use, they settle there, and to send them packing will become a problem.

In the past, clerics were upright, they were brave and addressed issues without minding whose ox was gored, but now most preachings are for prosperity. Why is this so?

The level of piety then cannot be compared to now. They feared Allah so much and would act as if he was there with them, but now things are upside down. Poverty turns the people against God. It’s because of this poverty in the land that people can’t speak the truth and are misbehaving. But there are still some religious leaders who are bold and talking. But if you want to criticize the government, you need to do a lot of research, so you will have the facts, not that you will go there and say nonsense. Just like the present economy, we all know it’s not the fault of President Bola Tinubu, he inherited an empty treasury. When you ask any economic expert they will tell you what he is doing is the best for now, we need to suffer a little to put the economy back to where it should be.

I know you have a lot of influential friends and people in government, how do you address issues with them? Again has there been any time your preaching put you in trouble?

We’ve always been telling them. But the most embarrassing time is when you call them and they won’t pick up your calls, especially from someone who knows you can never call to ask for money. We will only advise them, but when you call and they don’t pick up, you send messages and they don’t reply, what else do you advise? We tell the truth on the air, but we put it constructively. We don’t go like others and preach in destructive manners. Destroying them has no benefit to anyone. All we want them to do is to fear Allah in all their dealings.

I’m presently in court with someone over such things you just asked. The person came from nowhere and started cyberbullying all Islamic leaders, even President Tinubu was not spared. He abused virtually all of us, even the highly revered Emir of Ilorin. He said some elders were walking about in diapers, he said a lot of derogatory things in open places and security people were there looking at him and did nothing. This person we are talking about lived in my house for six months, but when he started his jargon I warned him and he didn’t listen. I had to send him packing and it was later I realized he was making a lot of money doing this. To make money on the internet you must be able to gain attraction and to do that, he started cyberbullying eminent people.

Imagine the day the late Alaafin was being buried, he went on air to say nasty things about him because he was a traditionalist. When Aminu Jahi in Ilorin who died in his prime age was being buried, he went on air to tell people not to cry for him and said a lot of silly, unprintable things. He called me several names. He called Baba Muideen Bello unprintable names, and he abused all of us, even the Imam of Offa who turbaned him wasn’t spared.

I took it upon myself to make sure he was punished for all these because some young Islamic students have started following his way of life. Unfortunately, our security personnel didn’t help the situation, the penal code they are using in the north is helping them there, and the criminal code we are using here is being misinterpreted to support criminality.

We petitioned him to Zone 2 and they approved it, all of a sudden they changed the story. This man is working together with another man in Osogbo who is also preaching against Christianity. They’ve arrested and sent to prison more than three Islamic clerics in Osun State. Even when I was in Zone 2, the man had the audacity in the premises of the police to bring in men from Zone 11 to arrest me. I was inside my car when four men surrounded me with guns, they were not in uniform and they said they came to arrest me for various criminal activities. I asked if they had the warrant and they brought out a handwritten paper and called it a warrant. I refused to follow them and I called someone for them to be arrested. I’m in court with them, challenging their right to come and insult me. It was this same person that asked them to come and arrest me.

The man later took the matter to Force Headquarters in Abuja, fortunately, we met with DIG Alabi who is a pious man, the policeman said he should be charged in court and he was disappointed. We are in court, he already has about six bench warrants, but each day his lawyer comes to court to say he is sick, same day he would come on air to mock the court and no one will arrest him.

Your forefather was Akeugbaeru, you are Akeugbagold? Is any of your children following this path?

I’m happy I have two of them taking after me. One has started his doctorate in the UK and another one is in the university in Ilorin.

You’ve been doing public speaking for some time, are you not feeling tired?

What will not make me tired is that I’m a businessman. I have a lot of businesses and I don’t rely on people to give me money. If they give me I take, but I don’t rely on that.  Again, it’s never in the Book of Prophets to retire because of old age or anything, they push on to the end. Preaching is my life, objectivity is the main instrument of preaching.

Does preaching give you money?

We are in the southwest where people don’t appreciate Islamic preachings, and the very few that appreciate will just give us stipends, I don’t want to turn myself into a slave of any rich man and that is why I have my businesses.

Some years ago you experienced an ugly incident where two of your kids were kidnapped by someone close to you. The suspects were arrested and charged to court, but you withdrew the suit. What informed that decision?

As a human being, I felt very bad, but I had to practise what I preach. Forgiveness is part of Islam, especially when I see the reason to forgive. Some forgiveness will cause future problems and others will give certain lessons.

When I went to court that day, Justice Abass was presiding over the case. They were about to start the matter, and if I didn’t say no, the matter would continue. I raised my hand and told the judge that I didn’t want it to go down in history that I sent these young people to prison, none of them was above 30 years. If they go to prison at that age what would be the future for them? They might even come out and start chasing me around, and we don’t even know the plans of the Almighty Allah for them, that was why I withdrew the case. I asked if the holy prophet could forgive someone who caused the death of his daughter, Zainab, the man who pushed her from the donkey that led to her death. If  Pope John Paul could also forgive the man who shot him, and even went to the prison to pray for him. It means I can still do it. I turned to the kidnappers and told them the lessons I learnt.  From that experience, I was able to identify enemies from friends. What if they sold the kids to cover their crimes or even killed them? I would have nothing to comfort me till today. I thanked them for sparing the children.

How did your wife feel?

I didn’t tell her because I knew she would discourage me. She felt bad and I calmed her down. Three months after the boys were freed, Oyo prison at Abolongo where they kept those boys was attacked and the prisoners were freed. Let’s assume they were still there and they escaped, we would not have peace of mind.

What are your plans to make sure that Akeugbagold’s legacy is maintained and sustained?

One of the plans is the group we just registered, the Council For Islamic Preachers where we will be talking and working together with the aim to ensure we live peacefully with other religious sects. There shouldn’t be compulsion in religion, let them respect our religion and we respect their own. Again we are thinking of how to help our Muslim brothers, a lot of them have been brainwashed, and they need to understand how they should behave as Muslims, These are things we want to do. A lot of people called me names when we started. They were calling me the Chief Priest, Chief Idolater, Baba Peaceful co-existence, all sorts of names. They alleged that I wanted people to become masquerades, that I wanted Muslims to start going to church, that people should not listen to me, but that didn’t bother me. A lot of Christians have visited me in appreciation. I can remember the last time ‘Baba TakutiJesu’ was here, he was sitting there and I told him I was a choirmaster and he didn’t believe it. So, I offered to praise God in the Christian way and sang the hymn ‘All Things Bright and Beautiful’, he was surprised. Was there anything against Islam in the song? I praised God. There are no two Gods. Supposing there are two gods, the world would have been destroyed because there would come a day when they would fight themselves. There is only one God and religion will not be the decider on the day of Alkama. Morality will take a big part in the judgment but religion would be the certificate to stand before the Almighty Allah.

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