There are some interviews you don’t want to end because of the depth of your interviewee. Their responses are reasoned and illuminating. You come away from such encounters excited that your reader would enjoy the conversation just like you did. This was my experience with the interdisciplinary artist, architect and author Peju Alatise, who clocks 50 next year.
Alatise has been around. In 2017, she was selected as one of the exhibiting artists at Nigeria’s debut pavilion at the Venice Art Biennial. That same year, she won the prestigious FNB Art Prize. She was selected as an exhibiting artist for the Venice Architecture Biennale 2020. She participated in Frieze Sculpture, London, in 2022 and had a solo show at Rele Gallery, London, from February 22 to March 23, 2024.Naturally, our conversation began with the last show in London before exploring other parts of her creative process. Enjoy.
CONGRATULATIONS on completing your last show, ‘We Came with the Last Rain,’ at Rele Gallery in London. How did you feel after the exhibition ended?
I always feel like myself. You finish one project and move on to the next. That’s the natural state of things.
What feedback, if any, have you received about the exhibition?
I don’t go out of my way to get feedback. We had a great opening reception, and people were excited about what they saw and inspired by it.
After that, I went back to my studio to work. I don’t go out looking for what people are saying. But at the opening, I witnessed happy people who said they were inspired by my work and enjoyed the exhibition.
Nana Sonoiki told me in a 2021 interview that you create fantasies for the girl child and everyone to forget their troubles. She said this inspired the joint show Escapism hosted by her gallery. Please tell me more about your creative process and objectives. Is it art for escapism or social commentary/criticism, as seen in some of your works?
It is all of the above. In the press release for ‘We Came with the Last Rain,’ I stated what the show was about. It included Yoruba mythology, social-political commentary and personal experience. There’s folklore, Yoruba cosmology and mythology.
Socio-political commentary? There is an age-long debate about whether art should be for art’s sake or social art. Some people insist that it should be art for art’s sake and that an artist has no business with social commentary or criticism.
That’s a lot of stupidity. They need to understand what art is. Anyone who makes that statement doesn’t know what art is and needs to learn how it functions. The artist’s job is to reflect the times we are in, the moment’s zeitgeist. It is the artist’s job to explain how to perceive what is happening around them to the layperson. We make very abstract ideas and occurrences that are difficult to digest.
Our job is to encapsulate it and make it easier for the layman to understand and digest. Things that you look at but never digested. An artist will show you how to see it better. That’s our job. It’s an uncivilised person who says they can’t make commentary because what brings civilisation is art. We can tell that all the different Roman, Egyptian and Mesopotamian empires were civilised because of the evidence of art. Because of the things that they crafted that tell their story. The Egyptian hieroglyphics. You see the drawings, and then it tells you about their civilisation. Is it not all written there? It’s all drawn on the walls, on all their monuments.
So, how can you say that the artist has no business talking? Is that not why we know that they are civilised? Is that not how we see that they had machines? Is that not how we know that they had a political world order? Based on the evidence of what their artists drew for us to see.
Is there any update on your Child Not Bride campaign?
That was in 2012, 2013. Unfortunately, only a few things have changed. It wasn’t just about the Child No Bride. It was about protecting the girl child. In Nigeria, a person can hire a nine-year-old girl to be her housemaid instead of attending school. They trade these children like meat in the markets.
You and I know that this happens. It’s not a secret. Who is speaking on behalf of these children? We need to expose social ills so that we can create a platform where people can discuss them. That’s my aim. Put it on a platform so that people can discuss what is going on. As the world evolves, as things evolve around us, our arts also talk about new things.
But unfortunately, child abuse has not stopped. Almost 300 children were kidnapped in Kaduna recently before they were released. The Chibok Girls were abducted 10 years ago, and half of them are still missing. It would be my wish that I never have to do any work about the mistreatment of children; it would be because we have evolved and gone past all that nonsense. We are better human beings and have stopped the abuse of children, but so long as we are still doing it, I’m inspired to talk about it.
Is the ANAI Foundation still functional, especially since you are in the UK?
Finding someone who could run the place took a lot of work. I had to shut it down for the first couple of years because I didn’t have the right people to run it. A few artists have come to me and requested to use it. As long as I trust them and see the kind of work they want, I let them do it. Some artists are using the place. I have an artist coming later this year to use the facility. It’s for people inspired to make something and need a place to execute it.
Why did you relocate to the United Kingdom?
Let’s call it an expansion and not relocating. I’m expanding. Sometimes, it can feel like being in one place; you don’t grow as you want to grow. In our life’s journey, you want to experience this part of the world, that part of the world. I come to Nigeria very often; I spend a lot of time in Nigeria. I was in the country at the end of January. I can’t call it relocating; it’s expansion. I wanted to expand the business. I wanted to create more international markets.
Can you compare your practice in both countries?
There is infrastructure here. Specific ideas are easier for me to birth here than in Nigeria. There are pros and cons. In Nigeria, we are goal-getters. We save time. We are great producers, so long as our energy is channelled correctly. I like that even if we are limited in our materials, we will still produce something extraordinary. Here, the possibilities are great. There are limitations as well.
Though you have all the materials, you might need more money to access certain materials or facilities because they are expensive. Glasgow is sometimes cold. It is so cold that it’s challenging to work. So, you look forward to summertime. My plan was always that when it’s too cold to work in the UK, I work in Nigeria. In Nigeria, it starts to rain when it’s turning to May or June, and your paints don’t dry. Then I do my work in the UK.
Your works are always delicate, fragile, even, and bright and need space to express themselves fully. How do you conceive them? Do you agonise over how they would turn out?
It works in many ways. Sometimes, I can see the end before I start it. But I have to see something. I have a picture in my mind. Then, I have a blueprint to work with. Things get easier. Sometimes, I see them in fragments.
It’s always a pleasant surprise when everything comes together. Sometimes, you can have a great idea, but the materials are not there, so you have to change and use something else.
With regards to agonising, I will not use the word agonising. I’ll use the word pressure instead of agonising. Sometimes, I’m under pressure to see a new idea. And then, sometimes, I see a new idea, and I’m under pressure to produce it because my mind will only be at rest once I do it.
You use various mediums, but do you have any preferences?
No, I don’t. It depends on what you are working on. My favourite medium is the story because all works have a story. What is important to me is that I have a good story. A lot of times, the story is the beginning of the idea. Sometimes, I might see something in my mind, but I don’t know the story.
Sometimes, I start it, and as I go on, the story comes to me as I am producing it. Sometimes, I have to trust my instinct or intuition. A lot of times, it’s the story first, so I would say that storytelling is my favourite medium.
Is this why you infuse your storytelling with your Yoruba culture?
Did you ever meet your grandmothers? Didn’t you enjoy listening to their stories? I enjoyed listening to my grandmothers. I’m very fortunate that I managed to spend time with both my grandmothers. They were fantastic people. They loved their grandchildren and told us stories.
The first time I saw you was at a literary event, maybe after you published Oritameta. Do you still write?
I still write because ‘Silifat’, a short storybook, was just [published] last year. As I said, my favourite medium is storytelling. So, even when I produce art, I write the stories that inspire the work. It will always be a part of what I do.
Your career is interesting: architecture, art, writing. How come God has deposited such talent inside just one person?
(Laughs) Very funny. Hmmm.
Why are you saying hmm?
It’s because it’s profound. Every human being is capable of great and mighty things, but many of us are still asleep. We have to wake up to our power. Once you awake to your purpose, there’s nothing you want to do that you won’t be able to.
What awakened you?
I am awake by God’s grace. Every day, I pray for direction. Even though I’m nearly 50, it’s never too late. According to some people, time is a social construct. Time only exists in clocks. I am learning so much about myself.
Man, know thyself…
Very true. That’s one of the greatest things ever said: ‘Man, know thyself’. We can give life and destroy it, build and destroy. If you know the power that resides in you, there’s nothing you can’t conquer. One of my favourite Shakespeare quotes is ‘To thy self be true.’ When you are true to yourself, that means you know yourself.
What are you currently working on?
Usually, I’m not particularly eager to discuss what I’m doing. I’m working on a retrospective. When I’m 50, my career is already halfway. I want to do a retrospective to see where I started from and where I’m at now.
When you are not working, what do you do?
I’m learning to relax again now, and sleep is my favourite. I eat good food and sleep. When I get a chance, I get as much sleep as possible to recover.
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