Nigerians pleading with APC to take them back to pre-2015 period —Shagari, ex-minister

In this interview with KUNLE ODEREMI, Alhaji Mukhtar Shagari (CFR), son of the late Second Republic President Shehu Shagari and former Minister for Agriculture and Water Resources, speaks on the wave of insecurity across the country, rotational presidency and how best President Muhammadu Buhari can engrave his name in history. 

Sokoto State has been relatively peaceful in terms of banditry and other violent crimes. What do you think has gone on such that there are killings almost every week in the last few months?

If I must be very honest with ourselves, you remember vividly that in the buildup to the 2015 elections, let’s say around 2014 or thereabout, the All Progressives Congress (APC), the party that formed government at the centre and of course their presidential candidate and gubernatorial candidate and their senatorial candidates and others all promised Nigerians that insecurity you were experiencing that time mostly in the northeastern part of the country and around Kano State and Abuja and so on, would be a thing of the past if Nigerians gave them their mandate. That is the party and the government. Constitutionally, the security of lives and property of Nigerians rest squarely on the shoulders of the federal government. So, I must say that just like you asked me, what went wrong. I am also asking this question about what really went wrong because Sokoto State had been until very recently, the most peaceful state in the country that everybody was happy to live there. Unfortunately, things are no longer the same. As a matter of fact, I know that the governor of Sokoto State, Right Honourable Waziri Tambuwal has been doing his best in terms of providing logistics to security agencies in the state, including vehicles and also deploying people to those places where banditry is taking place. But his best cannot automatically cannot bring an end to this problem because he doesn’t control the army, police and security apparatus in the state. In fact, he does not control all the security agencies. They are all directly under the federal government.  However, at this point in time, we should not concentrate on pointing fingers; we should concentrate on concerted efforts by the federal, state and local governments, as well as security agencies, traditional institutions and by the people themselves to fight this menace that is gradually engulfing the whole nation. It is time the federal government and the APC come out to fulfil the promise they made to the people of this country, including the issue of security that is giving everyone serious concern.

A governor is the chief security of his state. Beyond your explanation, why does he have to be handicapped to tackle such critical issues and contain some of the challenges?

I have told you that the governor has been consistently doing his best with the little meagre resources the Sokoto government has. He has been consistently cooperating with security agencies in the state. Constitutionally, the control of the security apparatus, the army, police, DSS, civil defence, customs, air force are completely in the hands of the federal government, and not the state government. The state government are just complementing whatever effort. They made a promise and they have to fulfill the promise. Nigeria must be secured. People must be free and safe to move around the country, which is not possible now.

Some governors have advocated self-defence by the people in order to contain the menace of bandits and other criminal elements, as virtually all the political zones are not spared from the activities. Do you share idea of self defence as the way to go?

If I may ask, also: was it the governors of PDP or APC that said people should resort to self-defence or all the governors across the country?

Not all of them.

Then, who among the governors?

One of them is the governor of Katsina State, Aminu Masari, who made such suggestion?

The governors you have mentioned belong to the same party, APC. But was that what the party promised the electorate that gave them their mandate. The APC did not say they should be voted to power so that Nigerians can resort to self-defence. What they promised was that the very moment they come to power, they will provide security for every Nigerian, irrespective of party affiliation, religion, tribe or which part of the country he comes from. So, they have to fulfil that promise. Therefore, I think it is wrong for a government to be so helpless and hopeless to the extent of asking the citizens of the country to resort to self-defence and give security to themselves.

That is not their duty. Their duty is to be loyal to the government of the day, the constitution and the country. It is the duty of the government, whether state or federal, to provide security for the people and APC must just do that and if they cannot do it, then Nigerians should kick them out in 2023.

Some hapless men, women and children were hacked down in a market for instance. Does it have anything to do with trans-border banditry? Is there any correlation with trans-border banditry, as the ruinous activities of some herders had been linked to migrants belonging to a particular ethnic stock from neighbouring countries?

Maybe, you are talking about what happened at Goronyo market in Goronyo local government area. The people that came to the market and killed those traders are bandits and they are residing at northern areas of Isa Sabon Birni and some parts of Zamfara and Katsina. They are not from anywhere; the people are known. And I am sure that the security agencies know where they are. And I want to say that the provision of security for Nigerians is the most important duty of any government of the day. It is imperative and important for the government to provide security at market places to make sure nobody is attacked. If they do not think that way, I think there is a security failure in that aspect. So, the people that caused the mayhem have been operating around Sabon Birni, some parts of Zamfara, Kaduna and so on. That is what I have been told.

Most people believe the spate of insecurity in the country makes state police imperative now. Do you agree?

I buy the idea that we are now in a desperate situation. I am for whatever will help us to bring peace and security to our people. If state police is the best way to go, I am for it. If there are other measures that can be taken, I am for it. I support the government to carry out those measures it deems appropriate to restore law and order in the country. But for the government to tell Nigerians to self-defence, I think that idea is self-defeating.

Political gladiators are already preoccupied with the politics of 2023, whereas a lot of Nigerians are groaning under the yoke of poverty, hunger, issues of bad infrastructure and weak economy

Well, let me put it this way: everybody in the country, whether politicians, or not; belonging to APC or PDP or any other political party, is worried about the frightening state of the nation. We all want to see an end to the terrifying climate of anxiety, fear and uncertainty. However, the truth of the matter is that critical challenges like hunger, poverty and the downturn in the economy have made life miserable for the majority of Nigerians. That should be a major concern for the government of the day (on the platform of the APC). They need to fulfil the promises they made to Nigerians by fighting poverty, hunger, guaranteeing the safety of lives and property and giving us an economy we can all be proud of. These are their responsibilities and so far, any Nigerian, including members of the APC, will tell you that in all those aspects, they have failed. If they have failed, it means that it would be irresponsible for them to come back and tell Nigerians to vote for them in 2023 to continue what is happening in the country today.

Another issue that is on the front burner is power shift, to be precise, rotational presidency

I have spoken about the issue on many occasions. The issue of rotational presidency is not enshrined in the constitution of the country. It is an arrangement by political parties. It was started by the then National Party of Nigeria (NPN) and sustained by PDP in the Fourth Republic.  Again, PDP said for the sake of ensuring fairness and giving people a sense of belonging, let us have a rotational presidency. As I said, it is not in the constitution of the country. But, today we are in a desperate situation in Nigeria; we are looking for true leadership. If you are looking for true leadership, you do not talk about zoning. You talk about getting the right and best candidate; a credible candidate, with a very good background of achievements for the country; a candidate with undisguised patriotism and love for the people and the nation. So, what Nigerians are yearning for today is not about where the president comes from. What they are after is to allow the political parties bring out people who can get the country out of the woods; who can get the country out of deepening economic crisis, insecurity, hunger and poverty ravaging Nigeria. So, I’m for the person that can make Nigeria great. I’m for the person that can get us out of the desperate situation we have found ourselves. I’m for the person that loves Nigeria, regardless of where he is coming from as long as he loves Nigeria, a patriotic individual; an honest individual that has the capacity and stamina to run the affairs of the country.

The South-East people say it is their turn to have the president in 2023 for the sake of equity, justice and fairness since the North, South-South and the South-West have produced presidents…

Actually, the people of the South-East have the right to demand for the presidency. They have the constitutional right to make such a demand. They have the constitutional right to bring out one of them that can be president. If they are interested in the presidency, let them put forward their best; let other areas also bring forward their best. Let the people decide on who is best among all that will offer themselves to serve the country. If the best candidate emerges from the South-East, I will support him hundred percent, I can assure you. But the idea of zoning is just being propagated by a few selfish politicians, who believe they can influence and manipulate the process in their favour. I think things are going to change; party members will now have the right and opportunity to choose their own candidate. The issue of zoning and what have you is now being whittled down by the amendment being carried out in the Electoral Act that will now give members of political parties opportunity to collectively choose their candidates, not what it used to be that excluded the people and a few people are induced with money to choose anointed candidates of the powers-that-be. Now, it is going to be through a democratic process and the PDP has said it is ready for that. Let me emphasise again that Nigerians are not much concerned about where the presidency is zoned; they are concerned about persons that can get Nigeria out of challenges.

Governorship elections are coming up in Osun and Ekiti in 2022, and some parties have released their programmes to pick candidates. What are your expectations, going by what played out during the November 6 governorship poll in Anambra State?

My expectation is that Mr President, being a very honest and courageous person, will not be too concerned about his party. He should be too concerned about the security and integrity of the electoral process. I believe that on their part, Nigerians will shine their eyes and keep their ears on the ground about what the Federal Government and INEC do. I believe that the president has the capacity and integrity to undertake the process of guaranteeing an acceptable poll. He should insist on free, fair and credible elections in Osun and Ekiti, just as it has actually happened in Anambra State. If he insists and allows the 2023 presidential, gubernatorial and legislative polls to be free, fair credible and peaceful, whatever mistakes he has made while in office will be forgiven and his name will go down in history as true leader; as a man, who was able to conduct, free, fair, credible, transparent and peaceful election and handed over to whoever wins.

Finally, I urge Nigerians to look at the record of APC and compare it to the record of PDP before 2015 in terms of management of the economy, security, poverty alleviation, fighting hunger and more importantly, in terms of providing security for the people of this country, as well as in terms of fighting corruption, I wish Mr President well and like I said, he has the courage and capacity to ensure that all elections that are around the corner are free, fair, credible, transparent and peaceful. And Nigerians must come out and vote; vote for the right candidate and I warn political parties that the time for imposition of candidates is cover. The time of political godfathers dictating the pace is over. The people must be allowed to vote for the candidates of their choice. Party members must be allowed to select the candidates of their choice without let or hinderance.

At inception in 2015, the APC administration said it was busy trying to clear the mess created by PDP in its 16 years of being power. Aren’t you convinced that the APC has been really trying to clear the Augean’s table?  

ls the unprecedented scale of insecurity you have in the country now under APC administration part of clearing the Aegean’s table? Does the level of poverty we have in the country today amount to clearing the Augean’s table? Is the precarious state of the economy, which used to be among the best in the world, the way it should be? Before 2015, I could get into my car and ride from Sokoto to Kaduna through Zaria, through Funtua, through Gusau and other places without the fear of being kidnapped. The situation we have today is such that even aliens are being kidnapped.  Is that the way to correct insecurity in the country? Ask every Nigerian, including honest members of APC, they will tell you that we have much and larger mess in the country than it was before 2015 when APC took over government. This is a fact; everybody knows this; the APC knows they have failed. But they still have about one and half years to go; let us see what they can do on the issue of security. I have heard some concerned Nigerians say ‘please, APC take us to pre-2015 period because we were better off then than now.’ I believe Nigerians will act appropriately in 2023. Enough is enough!