We must negotiate terms, condition of our federalism —Attah

ELDER statesman, Obong Victor Attah, is the co-chairman of the Pan-Niger Delta Forum (PANDEF), and strong advocate of resource control, quit politics in 2015. In this interview with KUNLE ODEREMI, the former two-term governor of Akwa Ibom State, bares his mind on fiscal federalism, unity of the country, power devolution, electoral reform, among other issues. Excerpts:

 

Where does the country have to start now, especially concerning the structuring issue, which has become a swansong almost to the point of losing meaning?

It is for everybody to develop the consciousness of the fact that Nigeria has not yet developed from the time the military left the scene. And when the military was operating a unitary system, which is they are accustomed to, yes there were some levels of developments, nobody can deny that. But when they now handed over to civilians, they shared money to various people, everybody stopped producing. That is why you find that internally generated revenue several states too abysmal compared to what they were collecting. But this money they are collecting is coming from one revenue source, which is crude oil. There is nowhere one revenue source can develop any country, not a country as larger as Nigeria. We have abandoned all other sources of revenue generation; we just concentrate on oil. The problem now is not the fear we have because recently of what we heard in the drop of the price of oil in the international market. France has announced that by 2040, no fossil fuel will be used in any of their vehicles. It is either electric or solar, and other developed countries are going to follow the path of France. When you take away the use of fuel by vehicles, believe me it is almost worthless. So, the sooner we really begin to go back to that principle of resource control; develop other resources, letting the people to become industrious and self-reliant again, the better for us. Everybody has to buy and key into that before it’s too late. The reality is that oil is no longer going to favour us in the nearest future, going by global trends and practices. So, we should begin to develop our resources and work towards achieving self-autonomy for the federating units.

 

The agitations by some separatist group in the South-East and the counter-pronouncement by  some forces in the North exacerbated tension in parts of the country, which was hitherto under intense pressure occasioned by violent crimes…..

I am happy about what has happened now; that the Ohanaeze Ndigbo has come out to say that their youths are overplaying their hands. Yes, you can agitate to draw attention to yourself. It is just like what was happening in the Niger Delta. We call them agitators, but others call them militants in the Niger Delta.  They did certain things that were completely wrong to draw attention to the situation in the Niger Delta, but the moment there was dialogue; that we are going to correct some of these things, it piped down.  I am extremely happy but Ohanaeze and all other Igbo leaders are now saying youths pipe down. Everybody should just sheathe their swords; nobody should order anybody to go anywhere or attempt to harm anybody. But by the same token, let everybody know that we are one country and work to right the wrongs.

 

With the benefit of hindsight as a governor for two terms of four years each and professional, what is often responsible for the gross abuse of office among the political elite, especially those that find themselves in public office?

Irresponsibility! Those who are in power, who are they responsible to? Sometimes, you hear strange comments like this money belongs to Nigeria. . Go out and steal it, and nobody ever brought them to book.  And when such things happens, everybody thought that it was normal. Those who steal will now walk freely in the street. I can say this with all honesty. For example, if the oil that is being produced in Akwa Ibom belongs to that state, Nigeria will derive greater benefits than it is getting at the moment, because Akwa Ibom will allow anybody to steal its oil. It will not allow its system to shortchange the state. But, right now everybody thinks that it is ‘Nigerian oil.’ But, who is supervising it? Who is taking charge or controlling the system and making sure no mechanism is being used to shortchange the system? Absolutely, nobody. This is what is happening. There is total irresponsibility because there is no accountability, and it continues. Sometimes, it has an official backing because these people that are doing under the various governments that were there did so, so longer as it was to help their cause, maybe to fund the political parties or serve other narrow interests. Therefore, they always turned a blind eye to the untoward action and practice.

 

Some expedient measures like the federal character principle, quota system, zoning and rotational arrangement were introduced to make the Nigerian project workable and stable. To what extent have these measures been able to address the fundamental issues in the overall system?  

I can answer that question with a different question. First of all, is it right that we should allow a quota system but based on different benchmarks? If you are from this area, once you score this, you are qualified; that if you are from another area, you must score much higher before you can qualify? Another question I want to ask is that when we had the autonomous regions, did we have this problem? I’m sorry I have to come back to the issue I raised earlier that it is this unitary system that is wrong and creating all these problems and distortions. If you give us today a restructured Nigeria based on the fundamental principles of true federal system, all of these will disappear.

 

The process of amending the existing Nigerian Constitution is in progress in the National Assembly, though the final report of the 2014 National Conference is still being kept in abeyance.  Are you not confident on the amendment returning the country to the path of glory? 

Let me be honest with you, when the fundamental basis is faulty, the end result is predictable. The foundation of the existing constitution is a unitary system, so, for you to amend it, it is going to be difficult. You just have to throw it away and start or lay a completely new and different foundation. If you lay a foundation and it is triangular and you erect a structure that is triangular on it and you now suddenly realize that the structure should have been circular, how do you amend the foundation that is of a triangular structure? You have to uproot it and lay a circular foundation so that you can erect a circular structure. And that is why I am saying that if you are not careful with the so-called process of amendment, it could get to a stage that you would possibly recognize what was there at the beginning. We should start from the beginning. Do a new constitution based on a completely new template premised on the wishes and aspirations of the people and true federal system. We have a foundation for that in the 1960 and the 1963 Constitutions. Go and look at what those constitutions say about the system. They are completely different from what we have now. But if you can amend the constitution such that we can have true federalism, go ahead but I see great difficulties because by the time you amend every line and every page, what have you done? You have done a new constitution.

 

Though the 2019 elections is about two years away, most leading political actors are stepping up their game. What are your expectations and possible apprehension and why?

The only fear I would have is only if the Independent national electoral Commission (INEC) is not ready for the elections. But I sent a memorandum to the Ken Nnamani Electoral Reform Committee, in which I pointed out the fact that the problem with the election in the country is not even at the polling booths. Thank God that we have introduced the Smartcard Reader, which really has solved a lot of problems at the polling booth. The problem is always at the collation centres. And I stated that there is a devise, which is not bigger than a cell phone, where at every polling booth when the results are announced and assigned by everybody, you enter the figure into the device and press a button and those figures are registered everywhere else; at the local, state and even at the national levels. The INEC has them (the figures), so that the collation is automatic. As more figures come in, they are added. The problem always has been when you have to count every ballot paper and stockpiled somewhere and you say count. Sometimes you have ballot papers going to where they are not supposed to go; the others are have destroyed or exchanged. So the major problem has been about collation and if we can overcome the challenge, and I’m not talking about electronic voting, because we don’t have the infrastructure for it, but we do have the infrastructure to transmit the result from every polling booth to a collation centre, so that nobody has to kill people on the way to carry ballot papers and other nauseating things and incidents such as that. Then, you can just isolate those polling booths where ballot papers disappeared or people were not allowed to vote or whatever.  And repeat the election in those areas. I also suggested what I think what lawyers didn’t see all the time: this question of whoever alleges must prove. By the time INEC announces a result, it is alleging that it has conducted a proper election; let INEC come and prove that it has conducted a proper election, rather telling somebody to go and get materials that is in the custody of INEC to come and prove that the election was nor properly conducted. This is a fundamental issue.

 

You were a governor for eight years. There was no instance when you could not pay the salaries of workers, as it is the common place in virtually all the 36 states today…

That was in spite of the fact that I was an oil-producing state, I was being given N600 million a month, when my salary bill was N800 million per month. Why is the situation different now? I am a thinking human being; I am a productive human being. I repeat, there is no state in this country that is not viable. Every state is viable if you would only work hard, think and look in ward and produce; take the comparative you have as a state; harness your human and material endowments honestly and exhibit accountability and transparency; that is what good governance is all about. So, every state can be productive depending on its leadership. But sadly now, the people have the kind of leaders they don’t want because of the way the candidates are selected at the Abuja headquarters of their parties and the way the elections are conducted and the courts determining who wins and who didn’t win, the people do not feel responsible to the entire country.

 

You were the leading voice from the South-South, especially as a governor then, in the clamour for resource control. Has the South-South been getting enough to justify its contributions to national coffers in terms of foreign earnings?

We have always had this issue of the South-South being raped by the country entirely. This is the truth because the people used to say, oh, the terrain is too difficult to go and develop, but they never said once that the terrain is too difficult for us to go in and bring out the oil. You bring the oil from the so-called difficult terrain but you refused and failed to develop the area. You left it completely polluted and devastated. What is the biggest concern today must be the cleanup of the Ogoni land. This is because it has been estimated that in about 30 years a much more scarce resources, including money will be required to cleanup the Ogoni land. So, we should harness all monies that come in now into doing certain things to bring the South-South back to what it was so that we can also develop agriculture. If all our land is polluted, what shall we live on when there is no oil, or if there is oil and there is no longer market for i?

 

Do you subscribe to the claim in certain quarters that the terms of the co-existence of the components of the Nigerian federation had been settled? What is your view, against the backdrop of frenetic calls for restructuring and other forms of ethnic agitations?

The unity of this country must not be trampled upon. We want one country, but the terms and conditions under which the states have to be must be negotiated and reviewed because we have changed it from what the Nigerian project used to be. What it was, was a federal system; we changed it to a unitary system, and this is what is causing all the problems. So, we must review it, we must negotiate it; let us all agree that we want a federal system. And once we have a federal system, of course, we will have a very peaceful, stable, progressive and governable country.

 

Aren’t you bothered that more than 50 years after Nigeria fought a civil war, the country is still faced with the daunting challenges of ethnic agitations, which are threatening its corporate existence?

Yes, I am, but it is because those involved in the agitations believe that is the only way to draw attention to their plight. Having drawn attention to the things that are wrong with and in the system, let us now resolve those fundamental issues to move forward. I believe the things that are wrong with the system have been identified. We must change the unitary system that was foisted on the country. Let us find ways of changing it, and believe me, the moment that system is corrected and the right one put in place, not only would the drums of war no longer sound, the  drums would have been destroyed. We will be playing harmony on violin.

 

Some claim that 36 states are too many for the country; that a lot of them are just glorified local government areas?

Too may for what? There isn’t one single state in the country that is not larger by size or population than several countries in the world. I repeat, too many for what? I can name several countries that are smaller than the smallest state in Nigeria. The people agitated for those states to be created because of the question of incompatibility where they were. Tell me, what number of states would such individuals of groups saying they are too many suggest we should have? If you say six, some will say 10. So, leave the states as they are. There are reasons for creating them. As I said, there is no state in this country that is not viable and the smallest of it is larger in population and size than several countries in the world. So, the challenge before us about quality leadership and not the existing number of states in the country.

 

Headcounts remains ever controversial in the country and there are calls for the postponement of next year’s census exercise? Why do we, as a people, always have issues with headcounts?

It is because we share money. If you use headcounts to share money rather than to planning and embarking on development for the people, you would always have controversy and other contentious issues. But if you want an honest head count so that you can plan and embark on development for your people, you will conduct a successful, credible, reliable and undisputed figures. Therefore, the problem is the existing system. Those calling for postponement are thinking about the election because from next year, we will almost be in the election year.

 

Is it common-sensical that we should continue to adopt zoning and power rotation as part of a political culture, in view of the nation’s diverse experience under different leaders so far?

I will answer that question this way. We still apply those principles because we have given too much power, authority and control to one person, who is the president. Until you change the system to a federal one such that those powers would be so diluted that only those that truly want to govern this country properly will seek that office, the practice might subsist. Why do people say such office should be rotated? It is because it is a turn-by-turn country; it is your turn to go and chop. If that is no longer the issue, it would be a question of somebody coming to power and governing the country properly; then, you won’t have that problem.