Killings by bandits alien to Nigerian culture —Sagay

Professor Itse Sagay (SAN) is the chairman, Presidential Committee Against Corruption (PACAC). He speaks on the judiciary, insecurity and the war against corruption of the President Muhammadu Buhari administration, among other issues. BOLA BADMUS brings excerpts. 

 

What is your take on the country’s judicial system? 

There is serious problem with our judiciary and there is need for cleansing at that level. If that level is not cleansed, then the rest of the country will remain unclean. As the judiciary is now, you cannot do justice if your hands are dirty. Basically that is it.

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But there are insinuations that the government of the day is actually working according to a script, especially with the way the former Chief Justice of Nigeria (CJN) Walter Onnoghen, was dealt with, based on the elections that were coming up then. Do you hold any contrary view? 

Well, I have heard that but there is no evidence that I have seen that corroborates that; there is no evidence. What we have seen is that we have somebody in a very high position that has not made out his plan about that position and when these charges were first brought, what happened was scandalous. It spread and involved going from court to court, seeking the same injunction. And he even went to the National Industrial Court (NIC) which has nothing to do with those charges, but which has to do with labour matters. They even went to the Court of Appeal when there was nothing to appeal against.

So, he did not handle the matter with the dignity and respect that his office demands. At a time he should have resigned honourably, he decided to fight, I would say, in a dirty manner with all these senior advocates pushing him on and misleading him. Now they have all deserted him. So I don’t think it has anything to do with the government working to an answer; I don’t agree with that assertion.

 

But the allegation leveled against Justice Onnoghen appears to be the trend in the judiciary where you have some officers who are not declaring their assets. What do you think are the challenges the government is facing in the fight against corruption in the country?

You know this is a precedent and now progressively anyone who does not declare his assets should be ready to face the consequences. So, if there are others out there, I have no doubt that they would be exposed and the same medicine would be administered on them.

The challenges in fighting corruption are numerous. The people who are corrupt and the people who benefit from corruption are many and very powerful. Most of the elite and the so-called educated people who are holding jobs and vast majority of them are in support of continuation of corruption because they have got used to having money and other resources which they don’t earn.

The culture of unearned income has become very established and this group of people are determined that that it should continue. But that is what this government wants to stamp out. And I would say our class of people, my colleagues, fellow lawyers, others, permanent secretaries, businessmen and others derives income from corruption. The enemies of the anti-corruption struggle are many and powerful. It is a big struggle; there is no question about it.

 

What is your view on the efforts by the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) to probe into the controversial Malabo oil issue?

Well, you know since Muhammadu Buhari became president, the EFCC has become dynamic. A lot of energy is drawn from the government that is in place. If the government in place seems to be the one that, in fact, tolerates corruption, then it will be very discouraging for the anti- corruption agencies. When have you somebody who has a clear determination to eliminate corruption-who would not tolerate corruption- they anti-corruption agencies drew energy from that; and that is what we are seeing now. The EFCC will be dynamic and will go after anybody who is dealing with the resources of the country in a dishonest and fraudulent manner.

 

What do you have to say about the belief that President Buhari is not corrupt but he is surrounded by corrupt people?

Yes, I have heard that. There is no doubt that some of the people around would not be corrupt, unless it is not Nigeria. Obviously, some of them will be. I can say that once that corruption is exposed, the will receive the same treatment as others that are not close to President Buhari. There will be no mercy, no discrimination. The former Secretary to the Federal Government (SGF), Babachir Lawal, is being prosecuted now after he was relieved of his appointment. This is going to happen to everybody who has been exposed as being corrupt. There is no hiding place now.

 

The issue of terrorism all over the country has become a big problem for the administration. What do you think is the way out?

It is of a shock to me because some of these killings look meaningless to me. I think we have sort of developed a culture of simply enjoying seen people’s blood just spilled, particularly from the northern part. The way it has just grown and expanded into the present situation is a big surprise and a big shock. I think the government appreciates this fact.

You can see what the Inspector General of Police is doing about it. He is strengthening the various groups, patrolling the areas that are affected. The Air Force has joined and I think some results are beginning to come out. A lot of these people have been either arrested or killed; these bandits and murderers are being dealt with progressively. I think six months from now, after this intensive response from the Federal Government, we should see very little of the killings still going on. It is a shock; it is unprovoked. Just coming from the bush and burning down villages and killing people is unNigerian. I am surprised about it.

 

Do you see any political dimension to the killings? 

I don’t know. Nigeria is a strange country. I am not aware of any, but I would not be surprised if somebody was behind it just to discredit the government. I would not be surprised; it is quite possible.