In the world today, many are Christians not disciples —Reverend Alawode

REVEREND Olaniyi Anthony Alawode serves as the Chairman, the Foursquare International Conference for Ministers and Leaders (ICML 2024) planning committee. In this interview with Nigerian Tribune, he speaks about what to expect from the upcoming conference, among other topical issues.

Can we meet you sir?

I amRev’d. Olaniyi Anthony Alawode, I serve as the chairman for the Foursquare International Conference for Ministers and Leaders, ICML 2024 planning committee.

ICML has been on for a while. What has been the achievement?

ICML is the training platform for ministers and leaders in Foursquare organization in Nigeria. You will then understand that the body of pastors, leaders, heads of ministries that we have are people that come together every year because they said “if you don’t train them don’t blame them”. So if people notice that Foursquare is vast in the Word, the basis will be that we take training very seriously, and at least once a year, centrally, the organization focuses on those key topics that will enhance and will equip leaders in various ministries, the ministers responsible for one thing or the other in the organization. They are trained and that training has produced what others will say: “Give me a Sunday school teacher in Foursquar; I will make him a pastor in any organization. The second bit of it is the networking among ministers becauseyou see the whole body of ministers and leaders in the organization coming together to pray, to fellowship and also to be trained.

What informed the choice of this year’s theme, MAKING DISCIPLSHIP?

In Jesus’ministry while on earth, he knew exactly the reason why he came and he was focused on it. He  knew that the only way to reproduce himself was actually to pour himself into some individuals who will imbibe his value and live it out and there after multiplication can start. And so when he  was leaving the earth physically, what he said by way of what we now call a great commission is: “Go into all the world, make disciples” So, disciples are individuals who will live out the values of our Lord Jesus Christ. They are not just professing Christians, they are people who are also on the mission. They are burning to also make other people to be like them. Paul said imitate me as I imitate Christ and that’s exactly what the whole philosophy of this year’s International Conference for ministers and leaders centers on: Making Disciples. The text is taken from Matthew 28: 18 – 19. We want to look at what is in the heart of our Lord Jesus Christ because in the world today, we have professing Christians but we don’t have disciples. That is why the church has turned to dancing hall, motivational speakers’ platform; there is no raw manifestation of the Holy Spirit. The bible says where the disciples were going, signs and wonders were following them, but what do we have now? We have people who come to the altar, to the pulpit, to mimic pastors, not to mimic Holy Spirit. We have people who are saying they are Christians but then there is no difference in their lives and that of non-believers. And that begging the question whether the future of Foursquare would be guaranteed. Now we are a hundred years in foundation. If in Nigeria we are going to carry it beyond that, it means that we must not join the crowd in claiming the growth of professing Christians, social Christians, entertaining Christians. Rather, we must be making spirited efforts to ensure that we have men and women that will live the values of our Lord Jesus Christ and will also consciously make efforts to mentor other believers to live the same values just exactly the like Paul told us: “Imitate me as I also imitate Christ,”so that the scent of the church will actually be the true scent of our Lord Jesus Christ, so that the feel of the church will be actually what the Lord Jesus intended it to be. That is the whole idea of the theme of this ICML conference.

Who are the people expected to minister at the conference?

 Thank you very much; this is a very unique year and a very unique ICML. Of course the Holy Spirit is the principal teacher because the Bible says he will teach us all things. But then we have our father in the Lord, the general overseer leading all the other ministers that we can touch flesh and blood and then we have our Bishop David Abioye of the Living Faith Ministry also coming as one of the guests. We also have one of our own ministers who is also a general overseer of his own ministry now but a very passionate disciple maker, Rev. Rufus Owoade. In addition, we have an array of internal ministers who by the leading of the Holy spirit will be taking one section or the other or handling one part of the break out section or the other.

It has been said that leadership is Nigeria’s major problem. How can we improve the quality of leadership in our society?

A leader is an individual who has got a vision and is consumed by that vision. But you cannot achieve the vision all by yourself and so you need to move by the power and the spirit of that vision and carry other people along because when that vision is achieved, the impact is going to benefit those followers. So, a leader will take people from where they don’t want to go to; where they need to go, because there is a purpose for them there. Look at Moses, a fugitive who was being expected to face justice for murder. But when God gave him the vision “You’re going to liberate my people”, he knew and he had what God wanted. So a leader sees the future and he is able to move people. Key word: if you look back and say I want to achieve this and there is nobody following you,then you are just taking a stroll. You are not a leader. A leader must have a follower and so when you now look at Foursquare or we look at the church, this is one of the areas where I  am concerned because I am also trying to study the impact of leadership on the growth or decline of church organizations, especially in Africa, and one of the things that I look at is this: when a leader is authentic, the organization seems to be more grounded  and then it projects further. When a leader is manipulative, you will see the charisma, everybody will talk but by the time the character deficiency in that manipulation begins to show, everything in the structure will collapse. We have churches in Nigeria that one could begin to relate to, that once made waves. But under ten years, they were completely gone. The leaders are not dead, they are still very much alive today, but the ministry is completely gone. So, for Foursquare, God has blessed Foursquare to believe in authentic leadership. That is why I am proud to be part of Foursquare, I am proud also to be in the leadership and I am proud also of our father in the Lord the general overseer, Rev. Dr. Sam Aboyeji, because it takes a leader who himself is settled in his mind to lead an organization to a settled place.

As the chairman of the conference, what do you hope to achieve by the end of the conference?

You will notice that this is a spiritual gathering and if the theme is making disciples, it means that I am asking, along with my team, that the Holy Spirit should take over remember. We said this is the teaching and training forum for ministers of Foursquare and if you are talking of making disciples, if we say that we have disciple deficiency in the church and that is what is largely responsible for the current state of the church and the fear that we have is that the next generation may not want to take the baton from us, it is because there is leadership issue:  either that trust is waning or the leaders are not being straitforward, or they are not walking their talk. So, at this training, I’m believing and praying that the Holy Spirit will hover over us;  that everyone that will come into this conference will be charged by the Holy Spirit and recommissioned into the kingdom assignment, into the very heart of our Lord Jesus Christ. Some of us may not have witnessed to a soul, some of us may not even have a convert in the last five years , but I am believing God that leaving this conference, staying there and allowing the Holy Ghost to oversee our lives, we are not going to leave, saying “God help me to lead a soul to Christ. ” We are also going to say: “God, I am going to stand with that soul until Christ is fully formed in him and her and he or she is ready to also make other disciples.

Is participation restricted to members of Foursquare Gospel Church?

No. As a matter of fact, as we talk today, every year we always have non-Foursquarians in their numbers attending, registered. In fact, I have general overseers of some ministries that have registered themselves and their leaders to be part of this and you know Foursquare is Interdenominational, si other ministries are welcome. Other leaders, even individuals who on their own volition want to develop Godly principles in disciple making are also welcome to this particular conference. It is not limited to Foursquare Gospel Church leaders, workers or pastors; everybody that is interested can come. It is open to the public; the registration details are there on our flyers, handbills, billboards, newspaper adverts and the website of Foursquare and we have people still registering for the conference. People can still register at the conference too.

What is the role of the church in Nation building?

I believe that the church and the nation— when you consider the citizens of a nation and members of the church in some places, there is an overlap. I am a  Nigerian, I am also a Foursquare member and a Foursquare minister, so what should be the role of the church if I take it from that perspective? I will say that because the church is where we expect that Jesus’values are lived and the character of Christ is formed and the aroma of Christ, which is integrity, honesty, love without deceit, sacrifice, selflessness, can ooze put.

So, if that is the concept of the church and then we are citizens of the country, it means that the church should give the framework of what Godly citizenship should be, what good governance should look like and what leadership should be. Talking about the leader of an organization or a nation, if they look into the church and look at the life of Jesus Christ, they should say: “This man laid down his life because there is a kingdom that is coming.” But people don’t know and he needed to recruit a whole lot of people; he became poor so that they could be rich. How many of our leaders in Nigeria today can say “I see a Nigeria where economy will be better in 2032 and this 2024, I want to sacrifice some things so that what all of you are not seeing when will mature?”

Where should we see the bulk of people to do that? It should be in the church and that is why the dynamics needs to change. People should not see the church as a pest either on the nation or on their purse. I will like to reference 1^st Chronicles 7: 13 – 14, when I read that place what it told me is that there is a passcode to solving governance, there is a passcode to solving economy and security issues and the passcode is locked up inside the church, because it says when there is famine it would be over everybody, if there is locust. Just like we have in Nigeria now, all those people eating the economy are locusts and the Bible says the situation may be reversed if my people who are called by my name, and that is Church, will humble themselves and repent of their own. So,  for me, the church dictates what happens to a nation. Get the church right and the nation is going to be right.