Buhari is waging a lone fight against corruption —Archbishop Okubadejo

The Most Reverend Dr Segun Okubadejo is the Bishop of the Diocese of Ibadan North and Archbishop of Ibadan Province of the Anglican Communion. In this interview by KEHINDE OYETIMI, Dr Okubadejo speaks on issues of national relevance.

Today, it has become usual for synods to be held by the Anglican Communion annually. This year’s theme is “A Reminder: We are labourers together with God”. Why the choice of that theme and what are you out to achieve?

We are holding the first session of the seventh synod. It is a new beginning for us. We are looking at what we have done so far since the inception of the diocese 19 years ago. We are also looking at the nation generally. It therefore behoves us to call the attention of everybody generally. That is the impetus for the theme. We are co-labourers with God. God has called each and every one of us to be responsible for the wellbeing of the earth. Are we doing it right with the earth that he has given us? Jesus lived on this earth and gave us a pattern on how we should live. He told us the reason he came and the life he would have us live. Unfortunately, people are not bothered about what they can give to enhance the wellbeing of the earth but rather what they can get out of it. There is a grabbing syndrome. We must ensure that we carry out our responsibilities.

You talked about Jesus leaving a leadership pattern with us. How do we relate this to our larger reality especially as leadership is concerned in Nigeria?

Everything is warped. This is so at every section of our national life. People want to have a hero or heroine, a role model. Look at our lawmakers. Both at the state and at the national level, there is nothing administratively. There is no probity; there is character deficiency. This is the bane of our growth. Our leaders are not showing good example to their followers. They tell us not to grab but they are grabbing; they tell us not to steal but they are stealing. Look at the situation of things in the country. There is hunger in the land but look at the expensive lifestyle of our leaders. Why won’t there be banditry? People believe that the money is there but it is not circulating.

How did you feel when you first heard of the huge amount of money found and recovered by the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC)?

It is unbelievable. This can only happen in Nigeria. I have never heard of it anywhere in the world. The emergency monies that were discovered showed how irresponsible our nation has become. The people who have been perpetrating pain on our people are definitely behind the huge amount of money. They have access to power and also access to the money. What kind of leadership is this? Thank God we are getting these funds. We only plead with President Buhari to make good use of the funds so as to alleviate the burdens of the masses.

When the present government came on board, there was a general assumption that insecurity would be dealt with thoroughly. By May 29, we would be celebrating another democracy day. What should the focus of governance at all levels?

There is no security in Nigeria. When you talk about growing the economy, we must know that we need external support. Nobody wants to come to a place that is insecure. Those in authority know what to do but they are not doing it. For many years, I have repeatedly said it that the Fulani herdsmen are being used by some people in Nigeria. While we were growing up, we knew Fulani herdsmen. They only went about with cudgels and sticks. How come we now have armed herdsmen? They go about with sophisticated weapons. They wreak havoc everywhere they go. The government is doing nothing about them. The first thing is that the government must disarm them. We have written many letters to the government about this. The Boko Haram insurgency is also being sponsored by certain people who want to hold this country to ransom. You can call them a cabal. You can see it from he way the government is being run. It is lopsided. All key positions are given to northerners.

Are you satisfied with the Federal Government’s fight against corruption?

I am not.

What then do you want?

I want the fight against corruption to cut across. It should involve all those who are complicit. It should not appear as though it is targeted against a section or political party. Within the present cabinet of this administration, there are those who are guilty of corruption. If you are fighting corruption, you must touch the entire people in your cabinet.

Look at the whistl-blowing policy. It also should be total. We thank God that the President is trying to fight corruption. But, I think it is a lone fight. We need to co-operate with him because people are not happy that he is fighting corruption.

There have been complaints about the huge cost of governance in Nigeria. There are pensioners and workers who are yet to receive their emoluments. Many states are not functioning. How then do we stop people from finding corruption attractive?

We must cut down the cost of governance. Our politicians must cut down the expenses they incur with our money. In the states where workers are not paid can we say that the politicians who run those states do not get their own salaries and emoluments? How could our lawmakers purchase exotic vehicles last year when the entire country is in recession? People have worked, retired and they cannot be paid. Those who are working are not being paid. They must look into it if sincerely they have gone there to serve. How could they take so much when a large majority of the people are in perpetual lack? There is much drainage in our system. A lot of money generated for both the state and federal governments are stashed outside the points where they should be. The governors must be sincere with their people.

Before now, there have been cries for diversification. Have we demonstrated the appropriate will?

We are a talking generation not a doing generation. We talk and write too much. We hold seminars on agriculture without doing anything worthwhile. We have treasures that we are not utilising.

There are calls for the provision of grazing reserves with the intent of addressing the Fulani herdsmen/farmers unrest. Do you support this?

With the way things are, we have seen the handwriting on the wall. These people are not herdsmen; they are terrorists. There is no way you would create room for a terrorist to dwell in your domain. Then, you are finished. Look at the devastation in Southern Kaduna and Benue. I have written to traditional rulers and other stakeholders not to give their lands to the herdsmen.

Today, it is no longer surprising to find that key offices in the nation are occupied by northerners. Look at the security agencies, finance and others. Despite this, their region is backward. This is what they want for other regions. We must fight this.