APC lacks capacity to transform Nigeria —Sule Lamido

Former Jigawa State governor, Alhaji Sule Lamido, speaks with ADAMU AMADU on the crisis rocking the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), the performance of the All Progressives Congress-led Federal Government and what must be done ahead of the 2019 presidential election.

As one of the founding fathers of Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), are you not worried about the crisis in the party?

Those who feel a little worried, concerned and even scared about the way things are going on in PDP have no cause for any worry, no cause for concern,  as there is no perfect human institution. The PDP situation now is simple: the party that has been in power for 16 years is no longer at the centre. And if you look at the history of the party, with its political leaders as its foundation, from Alex Ekwueme, Adamu Ciroma, Barnabas Gemade, Audu Ogbe, Amadu Ali, these are leaders, who are known nationwide and who have had their own personal standing within the society and who are also coming from the old generation. So they were able to get the party properly on course.  We had political leaders then leading the party. The party was very strong. It had the capacity to contain all crises and we had the federal government at the top as its canopy. Then, suddenly, the canopy collapsed. Now the rains are pouring in; the heat from the sun is coming in and the discomfort plus the very unfair, unjust, the All Progressives Congress (APC) government is terrorising people in PDP.

So there would be some skirmishes; there would be some concerns and some pushing. But I think there shouldn’t be any cause for worry. We have to contend with the fact that we are now a party in the opposition, a party with no canopy in the presidency, a party without any serious political leaders, as there were at foundation and later as the party was growing.

What is your assessment of the APC/Buhari’s administration in the last 19 months?

I have been saying this over and over that the strength of the APC, their propelling force was simply a desire to remove PDP and harm it. And that is why in their campaigns, they said a number of things. I mean there is no big deal when anybody says anything,  but then as leaders, you have a kind of benchmark and you don’t cross beyond the red line as a leader. Now in trying to go contrary, you are coming below the level of decency and honour of leadership and you say anything, simply because you are trying to appease your constituents who are ignorant, who are impoverished and who have no experience. If you come down to that level,  what it means is that you are also destroying your history, because it is not fair to use their own innocence, to manipulate their own age, to use poverty and hunger in them to incite them towards destroying a foundation of a society in Nigeria.

So by the time the APC came below sea level and said a number of things, most of them pure lies, that PDP is ‘Boko Haram’, PDP in the north is anti-Christians, they tried to look at the Nigerian terrain and environment and begin to apply a particular kind of position or slogan that fits that environment. In the North where people are core Muslims, they talked about Islam. When they go around Kafanchan, Plateau or Benue, then they changed their style. When they go farther south, they say a different thing, but in PDP, because we are talking about the nation, wherever we go, the appeal is uniform. It is about Nigeria: Nigeria as federation of human beings, because we cannot be a Muslim or a Christian, a northerner or a southerner unless you are a human being. So it is the human essence which is more important first. So you don’t use our division in us in terms of our religions, locations, tribes as a manipulating mechanism to be able to get votes.

They have been in government now for two years, their main source of irritation, source of pain and source of political strength is the PDP to move out of power. In the last two years, there have been complaints upon complaints: either there are no resources because PDP stole all the money or because we are all thieves. A number of things they said before and they are still saying the same things. The fuel crisis came in their first few months; earlier [during the time of PDP] they said fuel subsidy was a fraud and they are now basking in that fraud. They are part of that fraud now. And the one thing I found very funny is the claim that PDP left nothing in the kitty. To me, I find this very laughable. Where is the Nigerian constitution, as a government elected for a period of time with a mandate; that says you must save money for the incoming government? What do you do with your own programmes? They said we have taken all the money and left nothing and they said for 16 years we have done nothing in Nigeria. If you look at Abuja, the stadium there was built by PDP government; the 10-lanes Kubwa-Abuja-Zuba highway was done by PDP. All the highways in Nigeria were done by PDP; all the airports, if you go to Kano or Abuja, if you look at the investment in energy at Gyambu of Taraba State, the Niger Kainji, all the works were done by the PDP. If you go round the country and look at the villages and towns, you will see some emerging prosperity. Houses built with grass are now transformed into bricks. It is all over. Goto Jigawa, Kebbi etc, the Federal Government under Obasanjo, Yar’Adua and Jonathan, ignore the personal pain that you may have against an individual and look at the institutions first.

But what is your take on the performance of the APC government?

I think what we are now seeing is a grand deception, which has been used to attain power by a party which is not organic, has no cohesion, history and nothing in common with each other. If you look at the characters, 95 per cent of the high-profile members of the APC are made up of PDP thieves, according to them. Former governors, former senators, former vice-presidents, former ministers, former everything who were PDP’s creation, PDP’s invention who were unknown, unnoticed, unfound in 1998 until PDP found, invented, made them, honoured and dignified them and gave them political positions in life are the same ones in APC. And they are the ones that are saying PDP has done nothing. It is a fact, no matter how well you may wish APC, no matter how hard you will pray, it will be difficult for them, because naturally when a thing was built on quicksand it is going to collapse.

APC does not have capacity for anything. There is no way you can load a two-tonne pick-up van with a 60-tonne of Dangote cement and that vehicle could move. There are bigger trucks for conveying such kind of haulage. The Nigerian load in terms of its weight, intensity, contradictions, divide, problems and crises are beyond the capacity of APC as a vehicle to drive Nigeria.

By the time we are through all these emotions and sentiments about the north and south, Muslims and Christians, thieves and stealing and bla bla, we will try and face the same Nigeria, where 20 years ago, there was a face of Buhari; 20 years ago, there was a face of Atiku in that country, face of Kwankwaso, Jonathan, Obasanjo, Sule Lamido, faces of all of us. 20 years after, whether you have an APC or DPC or whatever it is — the nomenclature has no meaning– it is the same faces. So change mantra is part of the fraud.

Maybe, for once, Nigerians should be able to be more circumspect, to be more reflective, to invoke history. What and where were we at independence as a nation? What were the vision of our founding fathers? What was their dream? What kind of Nigeria were we looking forward to at independence? A country which was made of various tribes, various cultures, religions, traditions, regions of North, South, East and West, but then united under God. Even in our National Anthem we say our differences should be our source of strength so we can build a nation of human beings and look at their human needs for development and put Nigeria on a world map, a country which is a leader of the black race. Nobody condones corruption, but you don’t go on such smear campaign terrorising people and demonising a political party in a country that we are supposed to be equal. But then they are saying that there are two Nigerians: Nigerians of the PDP, people of evil, people who are rogues and thieves who did nothing for Nigeria, who hate Nigeria and are Boko Haram. We are in a warehouse, where we have lost our human rights. We are now seen as human things, not as human beings. Then the other Nigerians are with APC. Even though you are from PDP and have moved to APC.  You might have been a thief, but by the power and piety of Buhari, you are clean [once you join APC]. When justice is lost, there would be some problems.

What is your take on the fight against corruption and defection of PDP members to APC?

Today, no matter how big you are as a thief, if you go to APC they would accept you. That is the crazy thing about Nigeria. Look at those going to APC in the last two to three weeks; these are people who are literally [on trial and have been arraigned] by the EFCC. And APC would willingly, with pleasure, celebration and fanfare, receive thieves. That is what they are doing. So long you are in APC, you can say anything you want .Even Buba Galadima stated that now in APC, there is theft right, left and centre. He said so, not me, and no wonder those they called thieves in PDP are now joining the bigger thieves, because the small thieves who feel terrorised would go to the bigger thieves in APC for protection.

Maybe because the PDP couldn’t stand up for them, that’s why they are going there or maybe APC has no qualms or they don’t give a damn about fraud. ‘Join us; if you are here, we don’t mind even if you are a thief; don’t worry we would clean and protect you.’ PDP is a family, and from whatever part of the divide you are, you are part of the family. What we are now doing is to ask ourselves what was reason for PDP’s formation in 1998? What was the vision?

I’ve been saying this, in 1998, Nigeria was not a normal country. The effect of Buhari’s rule in 1983, where all politicians were demonised, was still there.  At that time it was a sin to be a politician. When Babangida came in, government became a kind of deception or a marabout thing and then there was June 12 and Abacha came in. So when we formed PDP, we reflected about what needed to do to put a political party that would properly capture the Nigerian situation where each and every Nigerian could be seen as a stakeholder in the Nigerian project.

So we had this kind of vision and then the injury we went through from 1983 and 1998 guided us to form a political party that would unify Nigerians and pacify those who were aggrieved like the western region whose son had won the Presidency and was denied. So rightly they would feel very bitter that that they don’t have access to the centre in the country. That’s why they formed NADECO. So we said fair enough, we would form a political party which would address all those problems, while as a normal democracy it should be able to address our needs and solve our problems. Democracy should not enslave you. In 1990, there were elections in Nigeria, the Americans said no, because they saw that party as against their own interest, as a Muslim party. Even though it was a party which Nigerians freely and on their own volition chose as their own political party, somebody in far America said no to it and the whole thing was truncated. The same thing with Hamas; they won the election but America refused. In Egypt, Mursi won his election.  So it means even the mother of democracy, America,  sees democracy based on their own interest and where they think democracy is going to harm them they will destroy it. It is as simple as that. So why don’t we have the same kind of wisdom to have a democracy that will cure our problems. That was why we denied all Nigerians and said that nobody should run in PDP apart from people from the West to appease them. People from the South-East, North-East were shut out so that those that felt cheated could get justice. Even other political parties saw the wisdom in what the PDP did.  The party called AD had their own convention and Olu Falae emerged as their candidate. The convention was collapsed, and they went to APP which had their own convention where Onu emerged as its candidate. They removed Onu from APP and replaced him with Falae and took Shinkafi and made him a running mate in order to address the South-West problem by getting a Yoruba candidate. So you see, at formation a number of things were done, because those who led the PDP were people of history. Along the line a number of things happened and everybody in PDP, including me. should share in the blame. Impunity, imposition and what have you became our trend, depending on who was benefiting. If you are benefiting, you don’t mind if I’m marginalised. The impunity may be okay for you now, but tomorrow when it’s me who is enjoying the impunity, you will scream. So all of us in and out have been part of these misdeneamour and impunity, which means we did more wrong as a political party than right.

There is ongoing litigation and even conflicting judgments by courts on which of the factions led by Sheriff and Makarfi respectively INEC should recognise.  What is your position on this?

The courts and INEC cannot solve the problems in PDP; it’s not their business. Today all the PDP state chairmen are all on the side of the Makarfi-led caretaker committee: the zonal chairmen form the six zones, the state’s assemblies of the 12 states we are controlling, the governors of the party, all former ministers, all former ambassadors  are on Makarfi’s side, because that is where the party is. So, for somebody like Sheriff, who is my very good friend and a brother that I like a lot, but who is ignorant of the tradition and culture of the PDP at formation, its mission for the vision for Nigeria, it’s all about authority and aura of power in leadership more than the function of the office in terms of what it can do for Nigeria. I can understand because he was an ANPP governor, senator and then leader and part of the amalgamation of the APC. So he is coming from an entirely different background. So if he fumbled or failed to understand the vision, don’t blame him. So there is no way the courts or INEC can simply help us; they would not. It is not their business; it is we the members of the party that can look at things and say look this is what we will do.

Many people see your recent visit to some states to commission projects as part of a strategy for your campaign for the presidency come 2019. Are you running in 2019?

Based on my political ideology, the self is subsumed; it’s subordinated behind ideas, behind principles and behind philosophies. Otherwise, there is nothing in me which is done in a deliberate way to promote me or my ambition.  In any case, where is the party now? Even if I have that ambition, where is the party? Get the party first properly reconciled, properly harmonised and then confront this party called APC in government and then begin to think about aspiration. Who do we put in that place in 2019? For me, anybody who has the quality, the courage, the political sagacity and the vision and the love for Nigeria, I will support him. It can be anybody; it can even be you. So you see it is not about me as Sule Lamido in terms of my own aspiration. What I’m saying is there is no party. Let’s build the party and if the party is thoroughly united, reconciled and very strong, then interest can begin to manifest.  But, for now, we should focus on what we are doing.