Chief Sehinde Arogbofa is the secretary of the Pan-Yoruba socio-political group, Afenifere. He speaks with HAKEEM GBADAMOSI on the state of Nigeria after 20 years of democracy and the way out of the challenges facing the country.
A few months ago, Nigeria’s democracy clocked 20, with most Nigerians expressing mixed reactions about the lot of the country in the last two decades of democracy. What do you think about the challenges facing the country?
Obviously, what we are experiencing now is not what we bargained for. We bargained for a better life, for prosperity, for unity among all the people that make up Nigeria, for good transportation, better education and, indeed, we were optimistic that by now, Nigeria would be better governed. These were our expectations.
The way out is for us to find a solution to the imbalance in the country. In other words, we want to restructure the country to give way for federalism that respects our diversities: a federalism that respects what each of the people stands for, a federalism where nepotism will be a thing of the past, a federalism where human dignity and human life will count and not the type of skewed federalism we are now having. Until we wake up and know that what we are having now will not help us, we won’t go ahead, because things have gone so bad that the country has to be restructured. That’s the only way out, we have to respect one another. Religious intolerance has to go.
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What do you think are the challenges before the present administration in the country and how do you think it can surmount the challenges in the economy and other areas?
Well, the situation as it is now is not the best. The federalism we expect is the one Latin scholars would refer to the Head of State as being the primus inter pares, in other words, the Head of State should be first among equals. By this, I mean that all the state governors should see themselves as being very important where the president is the president. Since he is not a military president and not a president that seized power through force, but through the will of the people, he should see himself as first among all these governors. Secondly, the president should not see himself as being the president of just a political party that has brought him to power. No. Once he becomes the president, he should see himself as the president of everybody.
It would have been a thing of joy if what President Muhammadu Buhari said on the assumption of office in 2015 had been followed. He said “I belong to nobody, I belong to all” but unfortunately, there are certain things that have been giving us worries about the sincerity of that statement. For example, how does that agree with his appointments, especially the appointment into important offices being limited to his household or people of his ethnicity? That doesn’t show that he’s following that maxim. We know that politics brought him in but why showing favour to governors from his own party through his actions? This won’t help. Like in the United States of America and some more civilised countries, once you’re the Head of State, you belong to everybody and same applies to the state governors. Once they assume office they should see themselves as belonging to everybody and try to canvass for votes and prepare for the election through what they are able to do for the people and deliver in terms of welfare like good education, transportation, health delivery, job creation, industrialisation and many others. These are the things they should focus upon to attract people so that they can say that really, they are rulers and not what is happening now. Not that when something is happening, those who are governors will pretend that nothing is happening and they will look the other way. No, that won’t help. They must be able to say clearly what they are doing in critical situations; they would not allow the people to start assuming that this is what they are doing. Let them state clearly what they are doing and back it up with actions. Take for example, the issue of killings and rape in the land, the government must be seen to have arrested some of these criminals and prosecuted them and not to pretend as if nothing is happening. The situation in the country is not the best for now. People are suffering; people are hungry, angry and jobless and whatever the government claimed to be doing is not being seen, because it is the other side that is more glaring now. The results are not positive and we will like the president during this second term to make life better for Nigerians. God will help him, God will help Nigeria.
Yoruba leaders seem to be disunited and are not speaking with one voice on issues affecting the development of the Yoruba nation. What do you think is responsible for this?
The Yoruba man that I know is highly cultured, highly exposed, cerebral and doesn’t want to be seen as a “follow follow.” He wants to develop a new idea and follow his mind; all these things make it difficult for anybody to just tailor the thinking or the mind of an average Yoruba man. From time immemorial, Yoruba people have, except in time of crisis, always find it difficult to come together; they rationalise on issues.
If you look at Yoruba history, you will discover, even though very late, that Yoruba warlords are able to rally their people to save themselves in the Okemesi war when Yoruba people were able to bail themselves out there and put an end to the Fulani menace. Even during the time of Awolowo, despite all he did, the Yoruba people did not speak with one voice, what we have is that the majority that we knew was on the side of Awolowo but not everybody and the reason is due to what I have said that Yoruba man doesn’t want to be a “follow follow” at all. So, with this at the background, you will have a better grasp of what is happening in the country. But again, don’t forget that at the right time, the Yoruba will come from different groups and visions and come together to fight their cause. The Yoruba man will do that when the time comes and at the nick of time, maybe when they discover that they are being enslaved or being conquered or tortured, they will forget their differences. What is happening now is not far from what happened in the past while talking about various divisions among Yoruba groups and leaders.
Apart from the materialism that has crept into our politics, which has accentuated the situation, I am not surprised by what is happening. Specifically, look at our leaders and the Afenifere; the word Afenifere is generic and anybody can say he’s Afenifere, no problem because Afenifere means “you like me and I like you” and Yoruba people like one another when they are in groups, in their homes, they like one another. The issue of religion doesn’t separate them. So anybody can claim to be Afenifere at any bloody time, but when we come to the reality, our own Afenifere, the one headed by Pa Reuben Fasonranti, members of the group see Afenifere as a philosophy, far away from the generic terms. To us, Afenifere is a philosophy. That was what we inherited from the founder, Chief Obafemi Awolowo and it has been passed on to Chief Adekunle Ajasin, Papa Abraham Adesanya down to Pa Fasoranti. The Afenifere we inherited from these people is Afenifere that has a philosophy and what is this philosophy? Welfarism, service to the people and this is espoused in the welfare philosophy of education for all. That’s how we show our love to the people, that once you have education you will be a better person. Then job creation for everybody. If you look at what is happening in the country now, unemployment is becoming the bane of the country, just like poor education. So our philosophy is that able-bodied people should be gainfully employed. Then another philosophy is that health delivery should be accessible to everybody and not just a few that is, you have a right to live and be catered for when you’re sick. Also, we have vast lands here and there, rural integration farming. Some of our governors have abandoned that aspect, whereas it was from agriculture that Awolowo made Western Region what it was then.
We codified all these things into our own philosophy and that is why we are different from those who called themselves Afenifere or those who came to be Afenifere sometimes, but disappeared for a long time and had to go and take the toga where they hung it after a long time and are claiming to be Afenifere now. You should know that it can’t fit, because they have abandoned the philosophy for a long time.
But we noticed that the Nigeria situation doesn’t favour us; it favours those who are more concerned about what they can get from the government or the people and not like the philosophy of Afenifere that is of those who will be making sacrifices for the people and not getting from the people or government. But nowadays, they will take from the underprivileged and stab one another to get rich quick and follow the fast lane and get to the government to make money and not to serve the people. All these are strange to the Afenifere philosophy.
Coming back to the question, yes, we may be divided, but as I said, I am sure that at the appropriate time, we will come together. Though some of our people may be deceiving themselves, when the chips are down, surely we will come together. We Yoruba are great people and that’s why other ethnic groups have respect for us. We must retain that pride; proud but not arrogant, that is what we should be. We should not be subservient and should not be slaves to other people. We should always ask for our rights and fight for our rights. What we are doing now in Yoruba land is asking and fighting for our right; it is not the best for people to come and take what belongs to us by force. But we can negotiate; we can. I’m sure that we, at a point in time, when we have to save our people from penury, all these leaders who are thinking of themselves alone will be abandoned. When the common people realise and understand the real people fighting for them, they will follow those fighting for them. It has happened before and can still happen. A typical example was what happened during the NADECO days when people joined the NADECO leaders when they saw that they were fighting a good cause. So, I am sure that all will be well but before things get worse, we will appeal to our brothers that they have to reassess their positions on very many things and we have to live together to make a success of our existence
But don’t you think the disunity is robbing the Yoruba nation of some things in the system?
This is exactly what I’ve been saying; it will rob us of some things. It will rob us of respect as a people and this is the most painful aspect, because the Yoruba man is a very proud man. He is not a stupid man but if he starts behaving in a stupid way and starts crawling and behaving like a slave, people will stop having respect for us. As to other material things, we can’t gain material things through being crawlers or beggars, but we can only gain through asking for our right and following our right. What we have at the federal system belongs to all Nigerians but some people are just going there to beg and a time will come when those who they go to beg from will start making fun of them and that won’t be good.
Again, if you look into the past, some of our leaders have always talked about being in the mainstream; I don’t know which mainstream had benefited us. During Abacha regime, we talked of being in the mainstream, but what did we gain? During [former Olusegun] Obasanjo regime too, they talked of mainstream, we gained nothing. Our roads were worst, ports were not developed, hospitals, education were nothing to write home about, so what’s the big deal about mainstream? Honestly, I think our leaders should wake up. Yoruba still parades a lot of strong people, people of character but they should just wake up, look back and know where they are coming from and try to let us come together and save us from disgrace, not as beggars. We are not beggars, no. A Yoruba man had never been a beggar, except for now that we are seeing some beggary in our actions and this is very pathetic. We should rise to stop that kind of situation. I don’t know what our leaders in Yoruba land are doing. They are respected people and if they come out to meet the Federal Government without being subservient, without disparaging one another, they will respect us. Other people respect us in this nation. The Yoruba man is a key factor in anything happening in this country and they should not let us lose it. We respect other people too, we are very homely and respect one another but we need to be very careful. We should just not lose our respect over material things.
The insecurity in the South-West region assumed an alarming dimension at a point, leading the six governors in the region to organise a security summit. Do you see the security summit putting an end to the menace?
Well, it is a welcome development and a sign of better things to come. That they were able to come together irrespective of their political differences; that they came together was something we should appreciate them for. But whatever they want to do, they should do it with sincerity of purpose. Dialoguing is part of governance and now they said we should come and dialogue on how to proffer solutions to our problem; that is commendable. But we don’t want them to be teleguided and they have to realise that first and foremost it is those that are living in Yoruba land that elected them into office and it is those that elected they should be afraid of, not any outside power, not the Federal Government, not the president, because the president is primus inter pares, and that is how it should be.
Let the governors be bold enough and learn to win the hearts of the people they govern. It is then they can enjoy the cooperation of their people. It was a good thing that they came together and they should tackle all these security challenges more forcefully. Let them come out and speak out. Our governors should speak out and decide if their people want this RUGA the Federal Government was talking about. There should be no hide and seek game about this, no. They should speak out. I think their coming together is a good thing for Yoruba people, but they have to work harder and make sure that everybody is carried along in the struggle, because they have been elected and they are our leaders and the chief security officers. I think what the governors did recently is a right step in the right direction.
But do you think the RUGA scheme, which was recently suspended by the Federal Government, could have put an end to the frequent face-off between the farmers and herdsmen in the country?
To start with, what is the essence of this RUGA they are talking about? I listened to Garba Shehu while he was trying to defend it. He was defending the indefensible. He had no argument and got it muddled up. If we want to do the right thing, let them go back to the 2014 CONFAB report. I heard Garba Shehu talking about ranching. We recommended ranching there, and he was saying RUGA is ranching. Why equate ranching with RUGA? This is wrong, even after his explanation we suddenly heard that the president had suspended RUGA. But I saw this as a kind of divide and rule. This was why I said earlier that for us to have the best in this country, the president must treat everybody equally. If he had that feeling that Nigerians should be treated equally, I am not sure his lieutenants have the same feelings. The issue that if you want RUGA to go we will assist you another way; it’s like a decoy, a deceit to the people. People have been deceived, because those who don’t want it had been deceived and we should not allow ourselves to be deceived. And looking at the South-West, do we have the land? Take Ondo State, for example, I listened to a programme where the Fulani man was saying that the reserved area in Ose Local Government Area of the state and other places should be cleared for RUGA. This is unfortunate. It is in that area we have cash trees where we make money and they want us to destroy all those things for some people to make personal money? And some of these people, we are told, are not even the Fulani we know; they are people from Libya and other areas. What’s going to be the fate of our people? I think the type of RUGA they are talking of is not the type we want. Let our people buy their own cows and do their own cattle ranching in Akunnu Akoko and other places in the state. These ranches should not be given out because we are going to suffer. This RUGA is going to create more tension among our people. The RUGA hasn’t taken root here but there are cries about the Fulani herdsmen maiming our people, killing our people, raping our women, harassing them, kidnapping them and so many other things, especially those who are said to be coming from the other parts of West Africa, coming through porous borders. The few we know, we are told, are not the ones doing it, but we have become suspicious, because we can hardly separate them now, unlike in the past. So what we are having today has really worsened the situation terribly. The fears, anxiety we have, so it is not going to help any situation at all. Almost at the same time, we read in the newspaper that some youths in the North came out to threaten the Federal Government that within 30 days they must implement the RUGA scheme. Why do people behave in that way? Private enterprise and you have to impose them on people? It means that RUGA can’t solve our problem. It’s a private enterprise; let it be so carried out. Let friendship be restored, because friendship cannot be restored when some parts are threatening others. We haven’t threatened any people in the North but all we are saying is that this scheme, we don’t want it. It is alien to us. We are not used to it and you can’t take our lands and use them to implement a policy for personal gains, because even where things had not got to that point, people were already suffering. They are already being killed, their farms already being ravaged. The farmers don’t have guns to defend themselves and these people used to carry guns. They now go into homes now. In Akokoland in Ondo State, some of them were said to have gone into the palace to kidnap a traditional ruler, who was lucky to escape. So, by the time they now come to settle down with the RUGA scheme, you can imagine what is going to happen. So, I think it is not sufficient for the government to say that they are suspending RUGA and looking at the other side, because it has become the practice of the government to say we are not going to do this and then they look the other way to allow such thing to happen. If this is done, it won’t help. So, I think all those young men threatening the Federal Government to do one thing or the other, it is better for them not to cause any problem in this country.