Dr Emmanuel Olugbade Ojo, is an associate Professor of Comparative Politics at the University of Ilorin. He is currently on leave of Absence and serving in the capacity of the Chief of Staff to the Oyo State Governor, Senator Abiola Ajimobi. In this interview with NURUDEEN ALIMI, He evaluated the political system in Nigeria and suggested ways for optimal practice. Excerpts:
Sir, What is your take on the clamour by northern youth that the Igbos living in the north should quit?
Recently, there was a threat of quit notice by the Arewa youth in the north asking easterners to vacate. It is a very unfortunate incident in the sense that it potend a very great danger for the stability of Nigeria federal system. As a federal scholar, it shows that since 1954 that we started classical federalism in Nigeria, all efforts at national integration has been a failure.
The implication is that all integrative mechanism like the National Youth Service Corps (NYSC) have not really achieved what they should achieve if the youth are now asking for disintegration. I want to admonish our leaders, the public policy makers and those that are in charge of implementing public policies that our federal arrangement needs a quick review. Anything short of that could be very dangerous because in the Soviet Union, the federal arrangement was contracted by Joseph Starley. In the early 80s, the federation crumbled and Soviet Union is a developed country by all standards in that wise, if since 1964 that we have been practising federalism, if all major ethnic groups and opinion moulders are not satisfied with the system, we need to review the system rather than going to war because it is a failure of national integration, pure and simple.
You described as unfortunate the quit notice given to the Igbos by the northern youth. But this happened following the stance of the easterners to leave Nigeria to stand on their own. Looking at it from this perspective, can we still describe it as unfortunate because they have decided to leave Nigeria?
Even if the easterners are asking for secession like Nnamdi Kanu is leading them, it is better to allow the system to run, if there is going to be secession, let there be an arrangement through referendum and not through war. If the east should secede, it still does not tantamount to the fact that Arewa Youth should be asking easterners to leave the North. There is no place in the world that you do not have foreign nationals. Can you just wake up in Ghana and say all Nigerians and Cameroonians should go? Or you wake up in the U.S and say all Nigerians should leave the U.S. you do not do that. Even if the easterners should secede, it still does not mean that Igbos will not be found in other parts of the world. And in this century, it is better we learn how to live together peacefully so that we can develop. Look at U.S, France and United Kingdom, why is it that they are tolerant and accomodating? And we are not in Africa, that is why we have problem in Sudan and other parts of the continent.
Our people do not know or learn how to live peacefully with one and other, look at the xenophobic problem in South Africa, Last time I was in South Africa, I was very careful while moving around because of the fear of being attacked and Nigeria played prominent role in the collapse of apartheid in South Africa. It still means that in Africa generally we are yet to imbibe the spirit of accomodation, tolerance between and among diverse ethnic groups. It is unfortunate.
As a political scientist, do you think politics is being played the right way in Nigeria?
I think our democracy is still very young. The answer is neither here nor there because Nigeria is a very young state which got independence in 1960 and uninterrupted democracy started in 1999. Before our democratic system will begin to consolidate, It will be after the first 30 years. What we are doing since 1999 is what we theorists will call democratic sustenance. We are just trying to sustain democracy, We will move to the stage of consolidation after the first 30 years. So, the system is still performing very well today despite corruption, election rigging, electoral violence we are still getting it well. Looking at the history, the evolution of developed countries not many of us have been able to reach where we are in less than 60 years of independence. So we are getting it better only that the military must be kept at bay. On no account should the military come to interrupt the process of democracy, let politicians wobble and fumble, the system will correct itself. Electorates are getting wiser on a daily basis, Let politicians keep on hoodwinking them, let them be cajoled, over time, the electorates will learn, they will be mature and they will vote properly.
Being a top government functionary and most especially a clergyman, what do you see to the suggestions from various quarters that churches must pay tax?
You see, that is ludicrous and it must not happen Contemplating it at all is not only devilish, but it could destabilise the country. Nigerians no doubt are averse to payment of taxes and levies. And if you can recall 1929/1930 Aba riot, it was simply because of taxation. If you can recall the Agbekoya crisis in Ibadan during the administration of General Adeyinka Adebayo who died lately, it was because of the resistance by farmers to pay tax. But when talking about taxation, churches or religious organisations must not be brought in. Religious organisations are charity organisations, they are not profit-making organisations.
It will amount to multiple taxation, for instance, I am a public servant, my employer which is the government must have deducted tax through payee from my income. As a Christian, I will pay tithe to my church which is another form of taxation. When you now ask government to now tax the income of the church, what are you doing? you are taxing me repeatedly and indirectly. If a church should go into business venture that is understandable. For instance, should a church establish a university? Whether they like it or not, payee will go to the government. If a church should deviate from the Bible and begin to bake bread or produce sachet or table water, that is a business venture that churches are doing today that I believe they should pay taxes.
But it is going to be the registered business of that church that will be paying tax from their income because there is going to be serious problem when we dabble into religion. No serious-minded government will deviate and go into the issue of religion because if government should dabble into religion in an attempt to collect tax then it may result to serious problem. The Christians are more organised in terms of registering churches, but how do you do it with the mosques? You see a filling station there is a mosque there and anybody can just walk in there and pray which is not administered like a business venture, how do you go and tax them? But there is one thing that we should note about that.
In the United Kingdom, what I know about churches is that government do support churches financially. Government would come at the end of the year and inquire how much churches generate each year from tithe and offering , if it is one million pounds, interestingly, government will give you more money. Why? it is assumed that religious organisations are assisting the government in terms of solving social problems. How? Those that are drug addicts if they go to a church and listen to sermon over time, they will be rehabilitated. Those that are potential murderers, if they listen to the word of God, they will have a change of mind, armed robbers will confess and repent. Government in developed societies are aware that religion is a social apparatus that should not be tampered with.
How would you describe the politics playing out between the Kogi State governor, Yahaya Bello and a Senator representing a senatorial district from the state, Senator Dino Melaye, which had snowballed into the recall of the Senator by the people of his constituency?
It is a very interesting melodrama in Kogi State that the political brouhaha between the governor and the Senator seem to have escalated to the level of commencing the process of recall. If Senator Dino Melaye is recalled, it will be a precedence and a first Senator ever to be recalled. What we know of is governors being impeached, but no Senator or anybody in the House of Representatives has ever been recalled. Let us see how it plays out, but I want to advise politicians in Kogi State that it is better to sit down and resolve the crisis rather than taking their pound of flesh on Dino Melaye.
The political elders in the state and national leaders of the party must be able to do something. But I am unhappy that the national body of the party is not having a firm grip on the members in terms of party discipline. Before the thing could snowballed into that level somebody somewhere ought to have called the two of them to order in the interest of the party. But the lesson therein is that a Senator should not attempt to hijack the machinery of administering a state from Mr Governor. A senator should not say that the chairmen of local government in my constituency must be nominated by me.
The primary responsibility of a lawmaker is to go to the House of Assembly and make good laws to enhance good governance. By the time you are taking over the function of the executive, there will be crisis. That is what happens in most states, it might not have escalated. A Senator may believe he must nominate all the councilors in his Ward, nominate all the local government chairmen in his constituency, then why is the governor there? A Senator has been elected to go to the National Assembly to legislate and you do not take over the executive functions of a state in terms of making appointment and that is where Dino Melaye got it wrong.
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