Abdusalam Ladi Abdullah is a former Attorney General and Commissioner for Justice, Oyo State and Deputy Chairman, Buhari Continuity Group. In this interview by YEMISI AOFOLAJU, he speaks on the state of the nation and declares that President Muhammadu Buhari should have been more proactive in his war against corruption.
Are you satisfied with the state of the nation?
Well, no reasonable person will say he is satisfied. Though we are moving to a better environment, but then nobody can say he is satisfied. There are still a lot to be done. Look at it from every angle: the economy, socio-political atmosphere, security and the other sectors. The government needs to work harder than what it is doing.
With the benefit of hindsight, how did Nigeria get into this point of confusion?
Really, this is difficult to say. But I think the problem started from the home. Orientation has changed as it has moved towards monetary acquisition. Long before now, at that time, you don’t go into politics because you have interest but because of the interest in your environment.
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But now, the issue is that people go into politics to make money. The interest of the nation is not there and we discover that 90 per cent of the so-called politicians now are not real politicians but opportunists; they are people just wanting to make money. You know politics is now second to pushing cocaine if you want to make money. That is the reason we have the good, the bad and the ugly in politics and, of course, the good are very few.
Look at the National Assembly, look at the executive both at the state and the federal levels and tell me the real politician who is ready to sacrifice for this country. Even the system, since the coming of former President Olusegun Obasanjo, has changed towards money making. Long before now, people did not go into politics to make money; that was the orientation in the past. But now, politics is synonymous with money.
What does this attitude signpost for Nigerians?
Well, it is a very bad omen. I can tell you that we have not seen the worst. Right from the basics, when we were in school, we were taught Civics that spells your obligation to your country; you know what to expect from the country; the duty of government was taught to provide security and provide social amenities and the duty of the citizens was to obey the law.
In the university then, for instance, the tuition was highly subsidised, including meals. In fact, I attended a varsity where we were given, on weekly basis, allowances despite the fact that we were on scholarship. Today, parents have to pay through their nose for everything where there are no amenities. Tell me, what stimulus would make today’s children patriotic to the country in the future?
What has he gained from the state that would make him want to be patriotic to keep one Nigeria? This is one of the problems we are having. Government has failed! The people are daily failing too!
We have no focus. 90 per cent of politicians now were not groomed; they are not prepared. They see politics as a way of making money, not serving the people. Getting money without people asking how you got it, you buy your vote; you are elected.
The electorate are equally guilty. Every voter appears to have a price to his name. We are worshipping money. We no longer worship God. Forget the number of churches and mosques we are having around. That you are humble is nonsensical/nothing to the people, but that you are rich is the issue, irrespective of the source of such wealth.
For how long are people like you going to watch as things get bad?
Well things can get better, but it will take determination. For instance, the talk about change even in this state, how does a political appointee get screened to become one thing or the other only for us to know that his or her certificate is faulty?
What is the work of the SSS, the department that is saddled with screening? If the department has done its work or is doing it well, many political appointees would not be there; many House of Assembly members would not be there and many people would dare not go into politics. But here in this country, anything goes.
What are you doing to check those in power who have your ears to do the needful?
Leadership in Nigeria is deaf, dumb and blind! Nobody is ready to listen to you. You just have to be there to know what I am talking about. It is a question of any idiot getting there and telling you what to do; he is wiser than any other person. Once they assume power, they think it is by their wisdom.
So, why do you want to waste your time? Everybody wants to do things their own way. It is better not to rock the boat at times; it is better to sit on the fence with your fingers crossed to see what is happening.
For how long are you going to sit on the fence?
Well, as long as I live.
Haven’t you thoughts for your children and business concerns in Nigeria?
What do I do? There are people who have been talking. There are hypocrites too who pretend to be talking; once they are given posts, they forget the struggle. Then one becomes confused. This cannot be done alone, it has to be a team work and this is the first mistake President Muhammadu Buhari is making.
He was voted in to fight corruption as he said he would do, but it appears he is the only person fighting the vice and, perhaps, with few others. If I were him, I would have institutionalised anti-corruption larger than what we have now. I wish President Buhari long life as a human being who can expire anytime.
Tell me, without Buhari today in Nigeria, what will be the fate of the anti-corruption crusade? It will die a natural death. He has not done that which is very necessary. If I were him, on the very first day [of assumption of office], I would have called on the Sarakis, Dogaras of this world; the obas, emirs and other eminent Nigerians and tell them what I am out to do — to clean up the table. I would ask them, ‘Are you ready to go with me or not?’If they say no, I would have two options; either I go ahead frontally with you or I resign.
Have you forgotten that he is not a military Head of State?
Reason I said he should call on all of them. For instance, if he had called them and they all agreed to fight corruption, then he would say, ’Let’s start from ourselves and let us forget the past. Let us start by making a law. One, the past is past, but, as from today, whoever is found guilty of misappropriation of public funds, this is the penalty. Though the laws are there, but now, we have to be strict with them. Nigerians must see us as examples to follow. As a public official, either elected or appointed, your children must attend public schools and universities, while those abroad must be brought back home otherwise, resign from your post.’
Do you think this stance would seat well with those concerned?
These are the basics.
But they were all elected…
Yes, they were all elected, but Buhari carries the can of every shortcoming and that is the reason he must arrange for a roundtable meeting to discuss the varied issues. It is only then he can tell Nigerians of his efforts at ensuring they are all on the same page.
And if their body language is at variance with his, he should be bold enough to say ‘I am sorry, I don’t think I can continue’. It is as simple as this.
But now, he is the only one fighting corruption. He can’t be the only one. Let us not deceive ourselves unless we all agree through enactment of laws that once a public officer is found guilty of fraud, his asset would be taken over by government, thrown to prison without an option of fine.
I think with this, everybody would come to his sense. It can be done if there is the will, but the will power is not there. Whatever we are experiencing now is temporary.
Come 2023, if Buhari goes back to his village after his tenure, what would become of the anti-corruption crusade? Who will continue the crusade? What have we achieved? We would have achieved practically nothing because, trust Nigerians, they will go back to the ills. This is the problem we are facing now.
The anti-corruption fight is bogus because it is not institutionalised. Mr President does not seem to get this correct. Look at the agitation for restructuring; why are we afraid to face the truth? If a nation within this nation says it is not satisfied with what is going on, fear of God, justice and fairness demand that the agitators are called round the table to air their problem to retain one Nigeria.
By the time we came together as Nigeria, nobody signed the pact; it was the will of the colonial masters. But after independence, we should sit down to discuss and face the truth. If we do not do it now, our children are more radical and they ask questions.
Your children might have asked you the question on oneness of Nigeria with no answer from you. Why can’t we face this issue? What is it that we can’t discuss to know if we want to stand as one Nigeria? If we have to be one, on what basis? For how long shall we force one Nigeria on us?
I am a proponent of one Nigeria, but if people don’t feel the same way I feel about Nigeria, there would be problem. There are people who are ready to destroy anything, any government facility. Why? It is because they don’t believe in the oneness of Nigeria. So, why do you want to be keeping us together?
If Yoruba is asking for her nation, let her go. If the North asks for their leave, wish them well and let them go. But if you are not allowing them to go, let us sit down and ask questions on why they feel so bad about one Nigeria and find ways of resolving the issues raised. What we need to do is talking to each other.
The talking can’t be handled by the politicians in Nigeria today. For instance, we have heard several cases at the National Assembly whenever government wanted anything done that it had to lobby the lawmakers before approval, not minding whether it favours their constituency or not. This reminds me of the issue of constituency project; what is the primary duty of a lawmaking body like the National Assembly? It is to make laws, oversight among other roles. Where in the constitution was it stated that they must be given money for projects? What projects? Eventually when they are given this money, contractors are called and given money to bring up bogus proposals. But you ask, ‘Where are the projects? Why should a lawmaking body get involved in awarding contracts and making projects?’
What is your take on the gale of defections of political gladiators?
This is clear. It is easier to change parties in Nigeria than to cross from one lane to the other. For one to cross the road in Nigeria, he has to look at the left, right and left again. But for the politician to change his party, he does not have to do that. He can wake up one night and announce a change in his party. Do you know why? One, look at the manifestoes of the parties; they are identical. It is not the question of progressives here, core conservatives there. No, this is not the case. Secondly, there is no party supremacy anymore.
So you believe in the continuity of the Buhari administration beyond 2019
Yes.
Why?
Among all the bad and corrupt politicians around, Buhari is fairer. I am not saying that he is not corrupt too; get this clear, he is the fairest of them all. Corruption is not just about stealing money. It includes nepotism, favouritism and ethnicism. If Buhari is excluded from stealing money, will you sincerely exclude him from nepotism and favouritism? With all the corrupt politicians in Nigeria today, he is however the fairest. But if there is anyone better than him today, I will leave Buhari for that person.
Are you saying you have not seen any other person?
Yes. If you see one, let me know so that I can easily join him in realising his dream. Buhari is the fairest of them all.
Good.No one is 100% perfect but this man is really trying his best.He struggled to eradicate corruption to pave way for national growth and development.He struggled to alleviate economic hardship.Look at what happened recently.Police invited Adeleke on certificate saga when the election is too closer.The man stopped police because there is no way by which Nigerians will not say the invitation is political.
You have said it all
You need Brian reset tablet Oga
You mean buhari is Bad and Corrupt?.
I agree with you,even he is not corrupt that s my take but what about these hawks around him?