National Chairman of the United Progressives Party (UPP), Chief Chekwas Okorie, in this interview with TAIWO AMODU, speaks in the influx of South-East politicians into the All Progressives Congress (APC), the Anambra governorship election and the chances of his party. Excerpts:
LOOKING at the cold war between the executive and the legislative arms, how would you assess it?
Well, it has worked very badly in the interest of Nigeria. In fact, it is a whole bunch of disappointment. Nigerians were looking forward to a very proactive, robust National Assembly that will fast-track legislative work, deal with issue of budget expeditiously and carry out its oversight functions in a manner that will be different from what it used to be. In the past, they will just go to ministries and agencies and collect whatever largesse they kept for them and walked away. We thought that would have changed with the so-called change mantra; it hasn’t. It is in this same National Assembly that the word padding came into the nation’s political lexicon. So, this is a very disappointing outing as far as Nigerians are concerned. I don’t know anything significant that has made the life of the average Nigerian better, even in terms of lawmaking, that you can credit to this particular National Assembly, especially the Senate.
Whatever has brought controversy, which has distracted the attention of most people, have always been issues that have to do with the executive arm of government, especially personal aides of the president. I think that is outside their purview and the people are now examining the law very critically to find out that most of the things the Senate insists on doing: clearing people, aren’t actually within its purview. Those findings are coming out. The Senate has no business clearing the chairman of EFCC; it has no business clearing anybody that is extra-ministerial. Now, these issues are coming out. I don’t see the Senate’s business in dealing with personal aides of the president such as the Secretary to Government of the Federation (SGF) and this has taken so much time and the Senate has seen it as a confrontation and belittling of its status by the executive arm. The thing is now degenerating into some kind of showdown that may affect the stability of this country.
I understand the case of the Comptroller-General of Customs; I understand that one clearly but the president has also not helped matters, especially in that area. I will also say that the executive is to blame; it hasn’t played its own role to the satisfaction of Nigerians, to the extent that Nigerians can rise in support and solidarity with it if it is having distraction from the Senate.
But the Senate says the law empowers it to screen and to confirm any nominee of the president.
That isn’t true. You see, what is the Supreme Court there for? It is to give interpretation when we have this kind of logjam. I am not a lawyer, but I have heard arguments from very senior lawyers, all on both sides. So, when you have contentious issues like that, that’s why you have the judiciary and of course, since it is an interpretation that is coming from the legislative arm; they don’t have to go through the whole gamut of appeal court. They can go straight to the Supreme Court to seek interpretation and whatever it says settles the matter.
But sometimes, the Senate behaves as if it is even above the Supreme Court by making such provocative statements that no court can decide for them on what to do. You cannot have a judicial arm of government and contentious issues are available in which people are misunderstanding the limits of their powers, especially on crucial issues like these. You approach the Supreme Court that is supposed to be dispassionate. So, why can’t the Senate approach the Supreme Court to get judicial clearance? Why must it be flexing muscle?
But the Senate has power of oversight over all agencies of government.
Yes, but the Presidency isn’t an agency of government, otherwise they should be overseeing the way Buhari operates. Is there any Senate committee to oversee the Presidency? There is none. So, the point remains that interference in the workings of the Presidency, to me, is very disgusting. The Senate is getting too interested in the workings of the Presidency, whereas in the Senate there, they aren’t doing the right thing. They were there when the same Senator Dino Melaye won his case where the court said his suspension was wrong; that the power of the National Assembly didn’t permit them to suspend him. That was when he was in the House of Representatives. That judgment remains unchallenged till today. The same Senate suspended another person, unmindful of the fact that he is representing an area that is in turmoil, a senatorial zone in Borno State and that was in spite of an existing judgment.
The way you fault the National Assembly on its statutory responsibility of oversight, don’t you think you are inadvertently foisting or favouring a dictatorship, because there will be no arm of government to check the excesses of the executive?
Let them do the oversight functions that the law permits them to do. If a minister refuses to come, let them raise issues with him but not extra-ministerial institutions like the EFCC. In fact, they aren’t supposed to clear them.
How do you mean? Why is the Presidency keeps returning Magu’s name for clearance?
The Presidency is also ignorant. It is just now that very senior lawyers are beginning to interpret the constitution correctly and that’s why I said they need to go to the Supreme Court to resolve this kind of constitutional logjam. Let them go to the Supreme Court to unlock it. That’s what we expect them to do in the case of the EFCC chairman. In the case of the SGF; they should approach the apex court to find out whether they have those powers they are trying to exercise. They are making assumptions and the assumption is that they have oversight functions, but the assumption of other senior lawyers is that they don’t have. That they are overreaching themselves.
Away from the Presidency and National Assembly’s cold war, election will be coming up in Anambra, how well prepared is the UPP for the election, given that the incumbent governor is contesting?
As a matter of fact, the UPP is the party of the moment. It will win Anambra conveniently and clearly without leaving anybody with any doubt as to its victory. I said this based on the following premises. The party has a manifesto that has clearly and expressly provided for restructuring of Nigeria, self-determination, fiscal federalism and devolution of power. As a matter of fact, we have reduced the 2014 recommendations of the national conference to a manifesto format; we have adopted all the recommendations. So, when we talk of restructuring Nigeria, we aren’t talking about the rhetoric of the like of former Vice-President Atiku Abubakar, who will be saying one thing and his party is saying another. We are talking about what is in our manifesto that is with INEC; that is an article of faith, a social contract. So, the people have bought into it and let me tell you, it has immediately reduced to almost zero level the agitation of the youth. If you watch since UPP started promoting its ideological inclination, those streets demonstrations have died down. Why do we go and expose ourselves to a hostile army? Let us join a party from where we can liberate ourselves politically. So, you will see a movement; all we are doing now is to guide this party against internal friction. How do we do that? Being open, transparent and accommodating in everything, including the way our candidates will emerge. Once that is done, watch the election, it will be a walk over for us.
You also have to consider the fact that the APC has done so badly and almost declared the South-East an enemy zone and it hasn’t minced words. When President Muhammadu Buhari said his Presidency is for those who gave him the highest number of votes, he actually said 95 per cent and he has no business with those who gave him 5 per cent; he defined clearly where he was heading and nothing has happened to show that it was a slip of the tongue. This is one of the few times I cannot remember anywhere there is no Igbo man in the National Security Council– not one. When you see projects that are being done, they aren’t even giving anything commensurate to the five states. If you share Nigeria into 36 states and you give what is due to five, it may be understandable. But they don’t get something that is commensurate, even one state. So, this has gone to the extent that even the unwary has understood it to mean that they have been totally excluded—even the word marginalisation is an understatement. What is in the mind of the people now is outright exclusion. So, the APC is out.
PDP was in power for 16 years before it lost power and it has nothing to point to, not a single federal project as we speak. The worst part is that even Barth Nnaji, the former Minister of Power invited foreign firms and set up the geometric power plant at Aba, which was supposed to provide 24 hours electricity to nine local governments within Ariara industrial district and with an overhead high production cable straight to Nnewi and Onitsha, which could have meant that since 2010, this industrial hubs would have been enjoying 24 hours power supply. It was the government of [former President Goodluck] Jonathan extending to the government of Buhari that stopped it. Even when there is private initiative, government finds a way to destroy and that started with the PDP government. So, this fact, coupled with the PDP’s internal crisis that is staring everybody in the face, means that only a mentally deranged person in the South-East will leave the comfort of his home and go to queue up to vote for any of these two parties. That’s how bad the situation is. When you come to APGA, it sold out.
You said Buhari has been practising the politics of exclusion, but there has been an upsurge in the defections by chieftains of PDP and other parties into APC in the South-East? How do you reconcile your statement with this development?
Look, check those who have rushed to the APC; these are people who never believe in winning elections. Ken Nnamani, Andy Uba and Jim Nwobodo, among others.
How do you mean?
These people never believe in winning elections; they have always had results written and if I want to take them one-by-one, it will become personal. But you know all these people ‘won’ elections under the PDP and the PDP was sitting as the rigging machinery of Nigeria. So, they felt if PDP could deliver them the way they were delivered only by just bowing to some godfathers in Abuja, APC will do the same. So, they are going to where they will be delivered into elective offices, whether they win or not. Number two, 99 per cent of them have questions to answer to the EFCC and the ICPC. So, they believe that the Presidency will be of help. In fact, it got to the point that my good friend and national chairman of the APC, Chief John Oyegun, had to publicly state that the APC would not assist any person who has corruption questions to answer. He didn’t just make that statement because he was looking for something to say; he saw how people of questionable characters were jumping into their party. But having said that, this is something we are all used to in the South-East.
You have said so much about UPP’s programme for Anambra with confidence that your party will unseat the incumbent and APGA. But you also know that in that state, money plays a crucial role. Do you have what it takes?
On the issue of money in Anambra politics, it is not true and it has never been so and I don’t know why people have that impression. Except the period that people started buying ballot boxes by paying for thugs, it has never been so. Dr Chukuwuemeka Ezeife was a retired Permanent Secretary, who contested on the ticket of the Social Democratic Party (SDP); he won the election. This too at the time the whole of the South-East went for National Republican Convention (NRC). You would also recall that in 2007, all the stalwarts were in PDP and Peter Obi of APGA won, despite the fact that all the billionaires were in PDP. When Obi was paying polling agents to get authenticated results for him, Ngige and Chris Uba went to somewhere in Enugu to write results and when Ngige fell out with his party and the Presidency, President Obasanjo said the reason he wasn’t supporting Ngige was because he found out that his election was rigged. And Ngige retorted that the table where they wrote his own result was where they wrote Obasanjo’s result. It was all in public domain.
So, it isn’t money matter; you can bring money and lose and Anambra is the best example where that has happened. The same thing will happen this time. If you give them the money, they will take but they know who to vote for. Now that votes will count, especially with card readers, which we now call electronic voting, once you vote at the polling unit, your result is transmitted to the central server at the state capital and at the same time at the situation room at Abuja. So, power has now been returned to the people. If we have any challenge, it is to conveniently convince them that this time, their votes will count. Anambra will be a good example of exercising people’s power.
to provide 24 hours electricity to nine local governments within Ariara industrial district and with an overhead high production cable straight to Nnewi and Onitsha, which could have meant that since 2010, this industrial hubs would have been enjoying 24 hours power supply. It was the government of [former President Goodluck] Jonathan extending to the government of Buhari that stopped it. Even when there is private initiative, government finds a way to destroy and that started with the PDP government. So, this fact, coupled with the PDP’s internal crisis that is staring everybody in the face, means that only a mentally deranged person in the South-East will leave the comfort of his home and go to queue up to vote for any of these two parties. That’s how bad the situation is. When you come to APGA, it sold out.
You said Buhari has been practising the politics of exclusion, but there has been an upsurge in the defections by chieftains of PDP and other parties into APC in the South-East? How do you reconcile your statement with this development?
Look, check those who have rushed to the APC; these are people who never believe in winning elections. Ken Nnamani, Andy Uba and Jim Nwobodo, among others.
How do you mean?
These people never believe in winning elections; they have always had results written and if I want to take them one-by-one, it will become personal. But you know all these people ‘won’ elections under the PDP and the PDP was sitting as the rigging machinery of Nigeria. So, they felt if PDP could deliver them the way they were delivered only by just bowing to some godfathers in Abuja, APC will do the same. So, they are going to where they will be delivered into elective offices, whether they win or not. Number two, 99 per cent of them have questions to answer to the EFCC and the ICPC. So, they believe that the Presidency will be of help. In fact, it got to the point that my good friend and national chairman of the APC, Chief John Oyegun, had to publicly state that the APC would not assist any person who has corruption questions to answer. He didn’t just make that statement because he was looking for something to say; he saw how people of questionable characters were jumping into their party. But having said that, this is something we are all used to in the South-East.
You have said so much about UPP’s programme for Anambra with confidence that your party will unseat the incumbent and APGA. But you also know that in that state, money plays a crucial role. Do you have what it takes?
On the issue of money in Anambra politics, it is not true and it has never been so and I don’t know why people have that impression. Except the period that people started buying ballot boxes by paying for thugs, it has never been so. Dr Chukuwuemeka Ezeife was a retired Permanent Secretary, who contested on the ticket of the Social Democratic Party (SDP); he won the election. This too at the time the whole of the South-East went for National Republican Convention (NRC). You would also recall that in 2007, all the stalwarts were in PDP and Peter Obi of APGA won, despite the fact that all the billionaires were in PDP. When Obi was paying polling agents to get authenticated results for him, Ngige and Chris Uba went to somewhere in Enugu to write results and when Ngige fell out with his party and the Presidency, President Obasanjo said the reason he wasn’t supporting Ngige was because he found out that his election was rigged. And Ngige retorted that the table where they wrote his own result was where they wrote Obasanjo’s result. It was all in public domain.
So, it isn’t money matter; you can bring money and lose and Anambra is the best example where that has happened. The same thing will happen this time. If you give them the money, they will take but they know who to vote for. Now that votes will count, especially with card readers, which we now call electronic voting, once you vote at the polling unit, your result is transmitted to the central server at the state capital and at the same time at the situation room at Abuja. So, power has now been returned to the people. If we have any challenge, it is to conveniently convince them that this time, their votes will count. Anambra will be a good example of exercising people’s power.